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Author Topic: Lamp module problems  (Read 200 times)

cajunrc

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Lamp module problems
« on: May 10, 2017, 07:43:43 PM »

I just replaced an old lamp module that quit working with a Lm465.  Since it has been installed it has been erratic.  It comes on at the right time but it will not turn off.  I turn it off  with remote and it will come on several time during the day at any time.  Some times it will not turn off at appointed time and stay on all night.  I have deleted the timer and the module and reinstalled the module and timer and it still acts this way.  How do I fix this?  I am running Windows 10.
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dhouston

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 08:19:54 PM »

What type of light? This sounds like a noisy switchmode power supply used with newer bulbs.
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Brian H

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 06:11:03 AM »

On but not Off can be the load making noise. The On signal gets to the LM465 but noise masks the Off.
The LM465 also has Local Control Sensing and the small voltage on the outlet can sometimes trigger the some loads to go back On.

Is the LM465 the later Soft Start version? Where the load ramps On and Off in around 3 seconds or before Soft Start where they go instantly On and Off?

You may want to read the great set of Troubleshooting Tutorials on the JV Digital Engineering web site.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

The X10 Wiki also has many tips on the LM465. Like how to see if you have Soft Start and how to define them in AHP depending on which revision AHP you have.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Lamp_Modules
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cajunrc

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »

The bulb is this lamp is an LED
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Brian H

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 02:20:41 PM »

The bulb is this lamp is an LED

Is the LED bulb a dimmable type?
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cajunrc

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 02:54:09 PM »

Yes it is, and I can dim it from AHP and from RF remote.  I have converted almost all of my lamp with LED's and have no problem with other lamps.  I had one go bad about six weeks ago and replaced it with this same module and have had no problems with it.  When
this one started giving trouble I just replaced it with new one and have had these problems since then.
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Brian H

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 04:21:34 PM »

Where the old and new LM465's the same version?
Old Before Soft Start, Soft Start, different between the original and replacement?
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cajunrc

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 05:18:35 PM »

The old module was an insteon, don't know what model.  I installed another LM465 about 6 weeks ago in a different room and have had no problems.  I just switched the bad one with an older X10 that was on the other side of the sofa and now it will not turn off.  I turn it off and it immediately comes back on.  I am sure if must be faulty and I will get it replaced.
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Brian H

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 06:08:39 PM »

The module is probably OK.
It sounds like the X10 modules Local Control Sensing is being triggered by the LED bulbs electronics.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Local_Control_for_Lamp_And_Appliance_Modules

You can try as a test. Putting a power tap on the output of the LM465. So both the LED bulb in the lamp and a smell 4 watt incandescent night light bulb are on the LM456s output. If the going back On stops. The Local Control Sensing maybe triggering it.

The Insteon module was probably a 2456D or 2856D dimmer module. They both also have Local Control Sensing. Early ones defaulted to enabled, later ones disabled.
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cajunrc

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 05:45:40 AM »

Okay, so the old modules that I had since the 90's and still worked perfectly when I changed to LED's have been replaced with improved modules that do not work with LED's?
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Brian H

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Re: Lamp module problems
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 06:22:38 AM »

All LED bulb manufacturers have their own designed electronics. Sometimes even between bulb models.
So they may not work with a particular design of any dimmer. X10, Insteon, UPB, Z-Wave or manual knobs.

The difference in the design of your old module and the new module. May cause completely different results.
That does not mean the new module is worse than the older one. Just it does not like your LED bulbs electronics, that the older model was OK with. Another brand LED maybe 100% fine with the newer module.

Also you can not compare an Insteon 2456D {old or newer hardware} with an X10 LM465 {before or after Soft Start} as they are completely different designs. Acting differently with an LED bulb.
 
Many here, have had to try different LED bulbs to find a good combination.
Insteon users have also had to pick compatible LED bulbs for their setups. So this is not an x10 only issue. More like an automation wide issue.
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