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Author Topic: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04  (Read 308 times)

jay1028

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KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« on: June 05, 2017, 04:57:13 PM »

My KR19A remotes are acting up.  They are the ones with saw resonator.  If open the remote and touch the saw resonator, it will work, otherwise, it just gives a short blink and does not communicate.

I see listings for KR19a, RKR24, PHR04.  Are they all interchangeable and all work with the YM751?

I have older ones and they don't work anymore at all.  What should I buy?
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Brian H

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 05:37:41 PM »

The KR19A is the X10 model number. PHR04 is the X10Pro model number. The RKR24 is the retail part number.
They are the same. They may have different model number stickers but all will work with a TM751.

If all your remotes are not working or marginal.
Other possibilities are the TM751 maybe starting to go bad.
Something has changed in the setup. Making power line noise or signal sucking.
Jeff has a great set of troubleshooting tutorials you may want to look at.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 06:07:25 AM by Brian H »
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andyd

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 06:36:01 PM »

"otherwise, it just gives a short blink and does not communicate."

My KR19A blinks continuously if dim or bright are held down.  It only blinks for about half second if on or off are held down.  What does yours do?  Typically the LED is driven by the micro-controller output and would not depend on whether the RF oscillator is working.  The FCC site has the incorrect schematic shown for the KR19A so I don't know if "typical" applies to this remote.

I assume you have tried a fresh cell.  What you describe would be a reasonable result for an almost exhausted cell.

Andy
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 08:54:24 PM »

Thanks everyone for your help.  I have another KR19A and it works fine,  The one that is bad, just has a very short blink, not a lot of short blinks like it should when operating properly.  My other one doesn't have the saw resonator and it  does not always communicate with the first button push.  Usually on the second or third.  The saw resonator one worked all the time first push and had better range.  I am only 20 feet from the Tm751.  When the KR19A stopped working, I thought it was the 751 and swapped it out, but no change.  Then I noticed the very short blink.  Changing the battery didn't help as the battery was reading 2.95v.  Funny that I have to touch the top of the saw to get it to operate.  Sounds like something electrically has changed.  I resoldered all the connections on the underside of the pcb and no change. I would rather get a KR19A with the saw resonator but none of the listings specify what it is.  Is the remote with the resonator a newer model or older model?
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 09:02:14 PM »

After reading that jvde link, it is a wonder that the X10 can even talk through all the junk wall worts, cfl and led lamps and computer power supplies in the house. I wish we didn't have to have so much junk on the power lines today.
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Brian H

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2017, 06:19:59 AM »

My thoughts are. The SAW Resonator is in the updated design. X10WTI was doing with devices with older hard to get parts.
Like the new model {unfortunately no part number changes on the label} Lamp and Appliance modules and the updated CM15A.

Does your SAW Resonator model use one CR2025 or two thinner CR2016 cells stacked on top of each other?

Noise and signal suckers are an issue now. When X10 was in the developed. There where not as many things making power line noise and signal sucking. The XTB-IIR has been a good addition to many of our setups. Even though I now have a mixed Insteon {while their modules still also could have an X10 address in them} and X10. I have at least a 1 volt {read on an XTBM X10 Meter} X10 signal in the whole house. It also is one of the few coupler repeaters that does not mash up an Insteon sign
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 06:44:38 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 06:26:20 AM »

For general information on a SAW Resonator type remote.

The Security Remote KR32A has the same button layout as a KR19A and a 310MHz SAW Resonator. 2 CR2016 cells for power.
It may have different firmware in it for security use but maybe close to what the later KR19A is.
FCC Database.
Grantee: B4S
Product Code: KR32A

The KR34A also has a Saw Resonator.
Grantee: B4S
Product Code: KR34A

X10WTI also made the Black and Decker Freewire line of modules. Their FWKR was their remote that looks like a CR19A and has a 418MHz SAW Resonator. 2 CR2016 cells for power.
Grantee: B4S
Product Code: FWKR
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 09:52:36 AM by Brian H »
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dhouston

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 11:03:44 AM »

I haven't opened a keychain remote but the Palmpads had the SAW solderpads and outline long before they actually had resonators. Basically, you can add the resonator to any of them to get better performance although they may end up misaligned with the sloppily tuned receivers. But, they should work best with one of the newer TM751s or with the CM15A with superhet receivers.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 11:05:30 AM by dhouston »
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 01:20:02 PM »

Mine has the 2025 cell.  Looks like I will just have to take my chances and order a few KR19A and see what I get, if its the older or newer unit.
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 02:00:49 PM »

I see listings for the KR19A-C.  What is that? 
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2017, 02:47:20 PM »

Also have three palmpads and they wrok great.. only KR19A is problematic.
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Brian H

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2017, 06:57:35 PM »

I see listings for the KR19A-C.  What is that?

I have no information on what the -C suffix means. I think it maybe a later model. As I have seen a -C suffix on a few different models.

My old KR19A box does not have the -C on the end and it is not one with a SAW resonator.
A quick look on eBay shows sellers. Both boxes with and without the -C on the model number. Are being sold.
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jay1028

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2017, 09:06:57 PM »

Received "new" KR19A. LED blinked like it was programmed, but it wouldn't talk to the TM751.  Removed battery and tried several times and no good.  Notified seller and he refunded.  Great seller.  Date code is 9E22.

Received the PHR04.  Programmed it and it works.  Just like I feared, it is not the SAW type.  Date inside is 02G27.

Both remotes look identical. even the chip inside has the same part number.  Maybe it's just as well I didn't get the newer model remote as that is the one that had quit and the older ones are still working.
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andyd

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Re: KR19A vs RKR24 vs PHR04
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 04:49:35 PM »

A few days ago I purchased 2 items sold as new "KR19A-C".   That's what it says on the boxes but the labels on the devices reads "KR19A".  They are single CR2025 powered.  I didn't pull the circuit board but there is a wax encapsulated coil on the same side as the cell carrier. 

One worked out of the box.  The other didn't work until I replaced the dead CR2025. 

I use the KR19A for my porch lights and my garage door opener power so it was nice to find a couple of spares.

Andy.
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