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Author Topic: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal  (Read 440 times)

Ardi

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If I connect ONE PSC01 to an input alarm signal, and generate an X10 signal (for example to generate A1 to turn on the landscaping lights), it works fine.

However, when I connect a SECOND PSC01, to the same alarm signal, to generate a second X10 signal (for example to generate A2 to turn on the flood lights also), neither one works.

Q.  How can the same alarm signal be used to generate two distinct X10 signals?  Let say A1 (for some landscaping lights), and A2 (for flood lights)?  I amusing PSC01 to generate the X10 signals.

Q.  Could the problem be that the TWO PSC01 receive the same alarm signal at the same exact time, and the generation of two X10 code at the same time be the issue?  Somehow the X10 code being distorted?
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 06:12:51 PM »

Q1 You can not generate two X10 commands at the same time with PSC01 modules.
Q2 Correct. The PSC01 is not polite and checks for power line activity. Two sending at the same time will corrupt both commands. You should be able to test each one separately to double check both are OK alone.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:14:58 PM by Brian H »
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Ardi

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 12:43:21 PM »

Hi Brian,

The source of the alarm signal is a photocell beam breakage.  Meaning that, when someone walk through a photocell beam.  The photocell beam device is NOT cable of sending a signal now, and another identical signal in a few seconds, to get around the two PSC01 issue.

Q1.  Can I buy a hardware and connect it to the wire that goes to the second PSC01, to delay the 2nd X10 signal by a few seconds, so that I do not collide two X10 signal at the same time?  If the answer is, you do NOT know, then,  I am surprised that no one has build such a harware for the X10 community.

Q2.  Would you know/guess, how many seconds delay I need to place between each X10 signals, to keep the signals NOT to collide with each other?

Thank U in advance for taking the time to answer.

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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 01:33:41 PM »

As for someone making such a device. You are the first user to want to use two PSC01 modules triggered by one source.
That I know of.

I will see if I can find anything out.
Does the photocell give a dry closure with the PSC01 in Mode B or a low voltage with the PSC01 in Mode A?
That information may help.

I don't know the time required for an X10 message to be sent off hand.
I will see what I can find out.

One thing I just thought of.
When using Mode B Dry Contact Input. There is a small sensing voltage on the Input Pins. Make sure with two PSC01s. Both + terminals are wired to one of the dry contacts and both - terminals  are wired to the other dry contact. Not + of one PSC01 with - on the other PSC01.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 02:03:54 PM by Brian H »
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Ardi

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 04:48:12 PM »

Hi Brian,

Your Q.  "Does the photocell give a dry closure with the PSC01 in Mode B"?

A.  Yes.  I have tested and use Input Mode "B", and it works perfectly.  FYI.  More detail.... I used Input Mode "A" and could not generate X10 signal out of the PSC01 using the photocell beams, and switched to Input Mode "B" and it worked fine.   

Your Q.  "Make sure with two PSC01s. Both + terminals are wired to one of the dry contacts and both"
A.  I use the "Optex" photocell beam.  The two output wire coming from the photocell beam are described as "COM." and "N.C./N.O.".  Presently I connect the "COM" side of the photocell beam wire to the "+" side of the PSC01, and the other to the "-" side of the PSC01.  I am consistent for both PSC01.  FYI.  I think, I tested and switched the "+" and "-" side wire, the PSC01 still works and generate the X10, but I'll double check that next time I will write to you.

Again, appreciate your taking the time, to reply.
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 07:13:34 PM »

Thank you for the added data.
I will keep an eye on the thread for any added things from you.

I did a test.
Two PSC01 modules. Mode B. Made sure + and + where together. - and - where together.
Isolated them from the house with an XPPF so my XTB-IIR didn't get into the the mix.
XTBM X10 meter to read the signals sent.
One on B1 other on C1.
Trigger either one alone and I got the proper signal.
Both triggered together resulted in a Corrupt Message received on the display.
I also tried A with a 12 volt supply. Same results.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 01:09:57 AM »

A complete 2-part X10 command with unit code and command takes a minimum of 47 AC cycles, including the 3 cycle gap.  Then there must be an additional 3 cycle gap before the next command is transmitted.  So that means that each complete 2-part command takes almost a second.

You cannot transmit two simultaneous commands because they will overlap and collide with each other rendering both commands useless.

I think the best way to do what you want is to use only a single PSC01 with a CM15A macro triggered by the first command to issue the second command.

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 09:26:28 AM »

One PSC01 and AHP with CM15A. Sounds like a good way to go.
Or a common X10 address in both.

Years ago. The Smarthome high end features X10 compatibles and early Insteon Modules that could have an X10 Primary Address. Also had a Scene X10 Address feature. So you could program each with the Primary Address and control them individuality.
Then program a common X10 address in the Scene and a different X10 address controls both of them.

I guess a timer module to delay the second PSC01 sending may work. Though the photo cell output would have to be long enough or after started would not reset early.
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dave w

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 03:33:38 PM »

Q1.  Can I buy a hardware and connect it to the wire that goes to the second PSC01, to delay the 2nd X10 signal by a few seconds, so that I do not collide two X10 signal at the same time?  If the answer is, you do NOT know, then,  I am surprised that no one has build such a harware for the X10 community.
This is very Rube Goldberg, however this would eliminate need of the CM15A and developing macros.
If you connect the momentary output of a PUC01 Universal Module to the input of second PSC01 PowerFlash and set the PUC01 to the same address as the first PSC01 (still connected to the alarm). you would stagger the transmission of the second PSC01.
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 10:16:06 AM »

I can't say if your Rube Goldberg setup will work in all setups.

I setup two PSC01 modules and an X10 UM506 Universal module. X10 part number of a PUM01.
Wired and set as you suggested. Using different X10 addresses for each lamp.
Controlling two lamps in my home, so I could observe them from the tester.  XTB-IIR in use.

When the terminals on the first PSC01 where connected.
Lamp on first PSC01 address went on and the UM506 went on a short time later.
Lamp on second PSC01 address went on then back off when the momentary times out.
If I set it to continuous. They both stayed on. Until the first PSC01 terminals opened.
When the terminal connection on the first PSC01 was removed.
First Lamp went off and UM506 dropped out. Then the second lamp went off a short time later.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:20:45 AM by Brian H »
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Ardi

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 11:06:57 AM »

Gentlemen (Brian, JeffVolp, Dave W), thank you for your feedback.

JeffVolp,

The one second delay between each X10 command is a very useful information. 

Brian, JeffVolp,

I was hoping to do this project via hardware ONLY, and not learn AHP/CM15A/via a computer, so that I can leave the finished product in the basement alone and not to think about the maintenance.  Plus, when I got the prototype PSC01 working, I went ahead and purchased a total of 12 PSC01, which I needed for this project, and now I need to put them in good use.


Dave W,
You read my mind, just by luck, I already have connected a UM506 (Universal Module) to another PSC01 to generate a COMMON X10 code (A16), to turn on the chime and a small night light, in different rooms, when ANY of the FOUR photocell beams are broken.  I did notice that it works.  So, when the gate photocell bean is broken, I wanted to generate an A1/A2/A16:  A1 (for Garage side landscaping lights), A2 (for Garage side flood light), A16 (for common code for chime in different rooms).  So, I already use a UM506 (Universal Module) & PSC01 to generate an A16, when the X10 A1 is generated.  So, now that I learn about the collusion issue, I probably could not use the same method to generate an A2.

Brian, I use UM506 (Universal Module) (setting: Continuous & Relay only), and PSC01 (setting: Input:B Mode:3)

Gentlemen,

You have been very helpful

Thank U

p.s.  If you would like to read a little more detail.... 

I have FOUR photocell beams on each side of the house.  The lights turn on ONLY on the side that the photocell beam is broken.

Suggestion for whomever makes the PSC01 hardware is to add a dip switch with the values of 0 (default) to 4 seconds delay.

I haven't built any electronic devices before, but the question I ask myself is that, if one uses "a Diode and a Capacitor" and create a 2 seconds delay, and connect it to the input wire to the 2nd PSC01, if that would do the trick?  I was hoping that someone has done this and I could buy this.

I also was thinking that I may have no choice but to use the AHP & Computer at the back-end, to TURN-OFF the flood lights, AUTOMATICALLY after 15 minutes, for when I am not at home or on vacation, etc.  So, it may make sense to use the same in the front-end for additional X10 codes to be generated.

The four sides of the house:

1.  Side one.  Garage/driveway.  PSC01 to generate an A1 code to turn on the landscaping light in the driveway, and PSC01 to generate an A2 to turn on the flood light on top of the garage side of the house.
2.  Side two.  Front door.  PSC01 to generate an A3 code to turn of the landscaping light in front of the house, and PSC01 to generate an A4 to turn on the flood light on top of the front door.
3.  Side 3.  Kitchen.  (same concept), PSC01 to generate an A5 & PSC01 to generate an A6
4.  Side 4.  backyard.  (same concept), PSC01 to generate an A7 & PSC01 to generate an A8.

If I would have use a single X10 code for all the lights, then when I manually send X10 to turn on any one light, then all the lights in the house would turn-on, which is wasteful.  Practically, we all want to save energy, so one needs to selective as to which lights are on or off.  Plus, if I wake up at 3:00am because a photocell beam is broken, by just looking outside, I know which side of the house the beam is broken, because only one side of the house is lighted, and I look outside and I see a deer, and I go back to sleep.  If all lights are on, that would be less fun to find out what caused the photocell beam to break.
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roger1818

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 01:28:58 PM »

Why not use an XPT3 Interface Transmitter w/ Momentary Contact?  It will transmit on or off codes for up to 4 sequential unit codes on the same house code.  If you set it to house code A and unit code 1, and wired one side of the photocell to the Red wire and the other side to the Blue and Brown wires, it should transmit both A1-ON and A2-ON.  I haven't actually tried it so I can't confirm that it will actually work though.  There may be issues since it is expecting the contact to be momentary, not held.  If you are also wanting it to transmit an off signal, a slightly more complex circuit would be needed.

It is also polite, so it won't collide with other transmitters.  You would need to wire it into a box and add a power cord if you wanted to plug it in.
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2017, 01:53:55 PM »

Thank you for the detailed information on you setup and needs.
Your setup is unique from what I have seen.
Will let the information sink in and see if anything pops up.
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dave w

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2017, 03:59:38 PM »

I can't say if your Rube Goldberg setup will work in all setups.

When the terminal connection on the first PSC01 was removed.
First Lamp went off and UM506 dropped out. Then the second lamp went off a short time later.
Yeah, I'm glad you tested. I did not have any Power Flash or Universal modules available for testing, but thought it should work. The OP did not describe how the PSC01 worked when the alarm went away.
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Brian H

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Re: Generating TWO X10 signals using TWO PSC01, when receiving an alarm signal
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 04:56:38 PM »

Yes the lights only stay on for the amount of time the photo cell or my test jumper activates it.
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