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Author Topic: WM100 PLC output level  (Read 477 times)

dhouston

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WM100 PLC output level
« on: January 19, 2018, 08:44:47 AM »

How is the PLC level?
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 10:21:46 AM »

I've not tested the production build as I have everything running on the last beta build.
I'll try to get that checked today.  ::) :'
 -:) Unless someone beats me to it! ;)
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Noam

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2018, 10:51:54 AM »

How is the PLC level?
I can't speak for anyone else, and I don't have a signal meter, but I had a bunch of trouble controlling some of my lights with the device plugged into a regular outlet (and I tried a few outlets on different circuits). Once I got a polarized cube tap (actually it is more bar-shaped, not really a cube), and could plug both my CM15A and the X10wifi into my XTB-IIR at the same time, I didn't see any more signal issues. I didn't check every device (I didn't want to mess with the lamps in the kids' bedrooms after they'd gone to sleep), but the ones I tested seemed to work fine (when they didn't the other night, without the XTB_IIR).
Now I need to talk to Jeff Volp about a two-outlet front plate for the XTB-IIR ;-)
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2018, 11:04:57 AM »

Just checked using Jeffs XTBM Pro signal Analyzer.
9.99 (so it may be higher)
My cm15 from the exact same outlet 7.36
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2018, 11:12:35 AM »

Using the same outlet for the controllers, I went to the other end of the house longest wire run and opposite Phase.
CM15 signal strength was .36
WM100 signal strength was .70
 >!
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dhouston

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 11:37:25 AM »

So that makes it about equal to the older X10 transmitters like the RR501, TM751, PL513, TW523, etc.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/x10-sig.html
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 11:40:50 AM »

maybe!
I'll see if I can find my old tm751
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JeffVolp

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 11:47:45 AM »

So that makes it about equal to the older X10 transmitters like the RR501, TM751, PL513, TW523, etc.

Actually, a bit more.  If you take the 7.36 from the CM15A and multiply it by ratio 70/36 measured after the long run, you get 14.3Vpp, which is about double what I get from my old Maxi Controller.

It has a much larger transformer coupling the 120KHz to the powerline than was used in older X10 modules.  And it has a high-frequency switching power supply that can deliver much more energy than the transformerless supplies used in the old X10 modules.

Jeff
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2018, 12:36:16 PM »

I had forgotten B:( I melted my old tm751 at my off grid place using a square wave inverter. :(
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dhouston

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 12:50:55 PM »

It has a much larger transformer coupling the 120KHz to the powerline than was used in older X10 modules.  And it has a high-frequency switching power supply that can deliver much more energy than the transformerless supplies used in the old X10 modules.

It's good to know they've gone to more modern technology.
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roger1818

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2018, 01:22:27 PM »

Of course the output level is only half of the story.  The receive sensitivity is the other half, assuming you are wanting the WM100 to be able to receive commands transmitted elsewhere.
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2018, 01:29:05 PM »

Of course the output level is only half of the story.  The receive sensitivity is the other half, assuming you are wanting the WM100 to be able to receive commands transmitted elsewhere.
Tested that too, though not with a meter.
With the cm15 plug in from the original testing outlet I moved the WM100 to where the XTMB Pro was. Farthest distance I have wire run wise and across the two phases. The WM100 seen the signal from the CM15 and correctly reported the device status change. :)%
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JeffVolp

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2018, 04:01:17 PM »

I made some measurements using a scope coupled to the line with a X10 XPCP passive coupler.

The unit transmits all three signal bursts.  Totally unloaded it delivers 30Vpp on phase 1 and phase 2, and 15-20Vpp on phase 3.  Apparently the power supply is running out of energy for the third signal burst.

Then I plugged a X10 Maxi Controller into the same circuit to add some loading.  Phase 1 and phase 2 fell to 21Vpp, but there was little change in the third signal burst.

Since just adding a Maxi Controller to the circuit decreased the amplitude by 30%, it may be limited in how much power it can deliver.  The 120KHz waveform was not a clean sine wave as it is for the Maxi Controller.

Follow-up:  I tested with a 5 ohm resistive load, which is in the X10 spec, and it delivered 15Vpp.  The X10 spec is 5Vpp minimum into a 5 ohm load, so it is doing much better than the spec.  And with a 5 ohm load it delivered a clean sine wave.

Jeff

« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 04:13:36 PM by JeffVolp »
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dhouston

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2018, 04:13:00 PM »

The unit transmits all three signal bursts.  Totally unloaded it delivers 30Vpp on phase 1 and phase 2, and 15-20Vpp on phase 3.  Apparently the power supply is running out of energy for the third signal burst.

Then I plugged a X10 Maxi Controller into the same circuit to add some loading.  Phase 1 and phase 2 fell to 21Vpp, but there was little change in the third signal burst.

That's quite impressive. Thanks for measuring. I'm sure it will influence many buy decisions. It would be nice to see similar circuitry in redesigned and/or new devices. AFAIK there's no PLC limit in the US.
 :)%
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dave w

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Re: WM100 PLC output level
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2018, 04:25:20 PM »

It's good to know they've gone to more modern technology.
:)%
I think we got a winner! Massive Kudos to Authinx and the manufacturers!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 04:29:26 PM by dave w »
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