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Author Topic: Whole house noise filter  (Read 578 times)

scali2018

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Whole house noise filter
« on: February 14, 2018, 12:28:31 PM »

I picked up a Leviton whole house noise filter to try and help with some intermittent problems.  The unit goes around the main, incoming neutral wire in the breaker panel and then attaches to the 2 (or 3) different phases.  When I went to install it at the main panel I found that there are 2 neutral lines coming into the breaker panel.  Do I need 2 of these units to effectively filter the noise?
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Knightrider

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 02:01:51 PM »

Are you sure one isn't a neutral and the other a ground?  Depending on your location and age of the panel, they could be used interchangeably.
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 03:02:07 PM »

There are 2 neutral (white) and 1 ground (green).
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bkenobi

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 05:37:32 PM »

Maybe this is what you need, but it was my understanding that the whole house filters only removed noise coming into the house from the street side of the pannel.  Is that correct?
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 05:55:26 PM »

That is my understanding as well.  The problem I am experiencing is a few light randomly going on.  They all seem to be controlled fine when i issue commands, and i have not been able to find any individual devices that seem to be the problem.  The whole house filter was on sale for $6, so if figured it was worth a shot.  Now i am just wondering if i really need two.
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HA Dave

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 06:24:35 PM »

....The problem I am experiencing is a few light randomly going on. ...... i have not been able to find any individual devices that seem to be the problem.  .....

By "individual devices".... you do mean old X10 remotes laying in drawers somewhere...right?
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 02:47:20 AM »

By individual devices i mean any other electrical devices int he house.  I don't have any other controllers in the house, and removed the CM15 from the outlet and am using the WM100 as the only controller.
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HA Dave

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 03:11:44 AM »

.... I don't have any other controllers in the house, and removed the CM15 from the outlet and am using the WM100 as the only controller.

And... you still get a random ON somewhere? That isn't impossible.... but not common either. X10 PLC's are sent and received at a certain point of the electrical sine wave... not something that accidently happens on the powerline a lot.
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 03:17:58 AM »

Thanks for the info.  I am stumped at what else it could be.  The switches that seem to have the issue are older, perhaps they are just starting to fail for some reason.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 03:39:22 AM »

Line noise can trigger devices to come on I occasionally have seen this when my backup generator comes on at my off grid place.
Finding the offending device can take a bit of time investiating.
I've never seen noise cause a x10 device to go off, but that doesn't mean it can't.
The offending device can be hard to locate especialy if it doesn't constantly cause the problem.
A look at Jeffs trouble shooting tutorials may help http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm.
A signal analyzer like the XTBM-Pro signal Analyzer has saved me hours hunting down issues.
 >!
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HA Dave

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 03:45:40 AM »

Thanks for the info.  I am stumped at what else it could be.  The switches that seem to have the issue are older, perhaps they are just starting to fail for some reason.

There are lots of X10 users still using old original (brown BSR?) devices. X10 device do fail... but generally just stop working. Filtering the incoming power lines might work. If enough people are on your side of the transformer... you could be getting signals or actual PLC's from someone else. I have even read (once) of a bad (flickering?) CFL at a neighbors causing havoc for an X10 setup.

But.... I'd still check every outlet in the house for an transceiver module.... that could be being used as a lamp/appliance module. And ANY old X10 remote.
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Modern automation is much more than turning things on and off.
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 03:51:23 AM »

Line noise can trigger devices to come on I occasionally have seen this when my backup generator comes on at my off grid place.
Finding the offending device can take a bit of time investiating.
I've never seen noise cause a x10 device to go off, but that doesn't mean it can't.
The offending device can be hard to locate especialy if it doesn't constantly cause the problem.
A look at Jeffs trouble shooting tutorials may help http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm.
A signal analyzer like the XTBM-Pro signal Analyzer has saved me hours hunting down issues.
 >!

This is the behavior i am witnessing.  I haven't seen anything go off on its own, only come on.  So maybe the line filter will work. 
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Tuicemen

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 04:06:40 AM »

Since you have a cm15 it may be worth pluging it back in and connecting it to the PC running AHP.
Open the activity monitor and watch for the on commands to the lights experiencing the issues.
this may help narrow down the cause.
If it is always the same devices turning on, have you tried changing the Houscode or unitcode of them?
If so and they still come on it definately is noise and I'd look at what is on the same breaker ( any charger, fridge,tv, microwave....) ;)
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scali2018

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 04:21:45 AM »

Good idea with the CM15.  I will need to wipe the memory first.  It seems to be the same 2 lights having the issue.  I changed the codes last weekend, but no luck.
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bkenobi

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Re: Whole house noise filter
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 04:24:54 AM »

Another thought is local control  I think you are talking about older modules so they may not have local control, but if they do...

Basically, if you have a light with a module on it, you can toggle the device power switch a few times and it will turn on.  If you have a device that flickers for whatever reason, it can turn itself on.  I'm not an EE, so I'm not going to try to explain why that happens or how local control is implemented.  In my experience, I'd rather have it disabled but that's not an option.  Heck, I'd also disable dimming and soft start if it was an option.
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