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Author Topic: Appliance Module Issue  (Read 211 times)

abxflyr

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Appliance Module Issue
« on: May 28, 2018, 03:50:05 PM »

Hi everyone,

I'm having a problem with a X10 setup utilizing an appliance module.  The module is operating a low voltage outdoor type landscape transformer.  The transformer photocell is covered up so the unit will 'run' anytime power is applied.  When sending the x10 on command the module starts and the transformer/lights operate normally.  When sending the x10 OFF command the module turns off (i.e. you can hear the click) and the tranformer looses power; but momentarly after that the appliance module clicks back ON (without command) and the lights remain lit.

I have check the command sequence and even tested it with the WM100 (a seperate device setup instead of the original commands where are part of a sequence/scene); as a single x10 command.  The history (as listed by the WM100) indicates the single OFF command being sent.

There is a coupler in my system (a basic X10 XCPR) and has been there for several years.  This system is old, has alot of things, but anything troublesome is filtered, etc.  Ocelot runs the house flawlessly for a long time now.  Can't figure out why this little guy is turning itself back ON after the OFF command (and a successful OFF).  Any help is appreciated!!!!!!
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Brian H

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 05:03:22 PM »

The older Appliance Modules have local control sensing and a is module On or Off sensing.
Off but back On. Sounds like the transformer when going Off. Generates some noise. Triggering the Appliance Module back On. With the Local Control Sensing.

As a test you may want to add a small incandescent bulb [7 watt night light or maybe low wattage bulb] to the output along with the transformer. Maybe with a power cube tap. Then see if it still turns back On.
Let us know how it tests out.

There is a modification you can do to the older before CFL friendly Appliance Modules. To kill the Local Control Sensing.
http://www.laureanno.com/  In the modification section.

X10 Wiki page:
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Modules_Turn_On_Immediately_After_Being_Turned_Off
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 04:54:17 AM by Brian H »
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SkipWX10

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 05:42:47 PM »

I have the exact same issue with a fountain pump, small for a 3 gallon bubbler. I have had this issue for years and never thought of adding a light in the circuit to 'eat' the noise...
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radioguy1007

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 05:50:43 AM »

I had this exact issue but my landscape lighting was using a switching power supply and not a transformer.  It would go off then about 20 seconds later turn back on.  I performed the local sensing disable modification to the module and have not had an issue since.
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abxflyr

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 10:15:07 AM »

Going to give it a try and will report back.  Although the term 'modification' is a streach!  I'll tap in a night light and see how that goes.
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Brian H

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 04:50:21 PM »

The modification we mentioned. Requires you to take the case apart. Cut a diode and jumper. With a wire cutter. Then reassemble.
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SkipWX10

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 06:46:05 PM »

The modification we mentioned. Requires you to take the case apart. Cut a diode and jumper. With a wire cutter. Then reassemble.

Can you provide a description/picture or a link to a tutorial on this process. I would love to try it with one of my appliance modules and see if it resolves my fountain pump issue. Thanks!!
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abxflyr

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 08:13:59 PM »

Well, the verdict is in....the internet never fails  8).  It works like a champ with a simple 7w nite light in the circuit.  I would also possibly be interested in the real fix if it's within my skill set.  Not really in love with this little bulb and its heat inside of the enclosure (although it is outdoors).  Plus it's something I'll have to contend with on occasion as the bulb will fail with use.  Oddly, this little 7w bulb is like 20% of the overall power being used by the set up for the LED landscape lights.

Thanks for all the help and I'll look forward to someone posting the real fix data (or I may search and see if I can locate it)
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Brian H

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 04:39:19 AM »

For older before CFL friendly appliance modules
The real fix is the modification on Tom's web site or an external load to load down the sensing current. The bulb will do that.
Some use an old wall wart to do it or an external load resistor, 33K Ohm 1 Watt. That is 3.78 mA and .47 watts when On.
If the modification is not done. Any external load will draw power when it is On.

The new CFL Friendly ones should not have the problems. Maybe a presently sold appliance module would also work.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 05:09:03 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2018, 04:43:35 AM »

The modification we mentioned. Requires you to take the case apart. Cut a diode and jumper. With a wire cutter. Then reassemble.

Can you provide a description/picture or a link to a tutorial on this process. I would love to try it with one of my appliance modules and see if it resolves my fountain pump issue. Thanks!!

This is for the older before CFL friendly appliance module presently being sold. They don't have the sensing current.

http://www.laureanno.com/index.html
Tom's X10 Modifications.
AM486 Appliance Module Modifications
Modification to disable local control/current sensing section.
There is also a jumper you can cut. Unfortunately he does not show a full modification section. It is mentioned in the add a local push button in the schematic.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 05:10:23 AM by Brian H »
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dave w

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 03:40:20 PM »

Oddly, this little 7w bulb is like 20% of the overall power being used by the set up for the LED landscape lights.
If the mod is something you do not want to try, a 4W nightlight bulb "might" work (sometimes they do,  other times the 4W does not swamp enough of the current spike back from the transformer or in my cases, the fan motor). As Brian pointed out, a 33K resistor may also work. I get five 33K 3watt resistors off Ebay for under four bucks. They worked on the fan, but not on the coffee maker, but oddly the 7W nightlight does.  Who knew? (or knows)   -:)
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abxflyr

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 04:03:20 PM »

I did the ole' cut the jumper program.  So far it appears that it's going to work...which is good since the light I was using is from a pumpkin set for halloween (vixen).  Hate robbing one passion for another <lol>.  Anyway, I think I'm good for now!
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Knightrider

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 05:55:36 PM »

Unrated note:

Ever wire a florescent starter in series with that little bulb in your pumpkin? It's spooky.
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abxflyr

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Re: Appliance Module Issue
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 08:10:53 PM »

I do know what you're talking about with the starter.  I used to be a pretty good halloween freak overall...but nothing compared to the guys who have real talent and go far out.  My pumpkins are 'singing' via vixen programming (x10 isn't the right tool for the job).  I have a few other toys (jacob's ladder, crank arm ghost, etc.) for that holiday still working and used...although not like I used to.
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