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Author Topic: Itís time to move on  (Read 3541 times)

HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2018, 12:37:32 AM »

X10 merely needs a cloud based device to stay current and viable. 39 million American Alexa users... and who knows how many Google users... what to control a couple things through those devices.... you know... for the fun of it. They can NOT do that with X10 now......A technologically modern X10 would have a chance of surviving this new age/glut of Home Automation products (just MHO).

I just spent a few minutes on-line shopping.... looking at prices and options for Alexa/Google users... who might want to dapple in Home Automation. And... I think I might have been wrong. There is just no way X10 can compete with the low prices and simplicity of the new WiFi switches and modules. Of course there are a few things X10 can do.... that the other systems have no module or interface to accomplish. But most people don't know or care about such things. 

Why worry about... which Hub or which interface?!? There are plenty of devices that need no controllers other than an Alexa or Google device. I've been in the process of re-imagining my setup anyway. Maybe it is time to plot a new direction.... that doesn't require X10 to introduce a new device/hub..... that they'll never develop anyway.
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brobin

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2018, 02:03:14 AM »

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than to see X10 prosper and make a resurgence.  I just don't think it's going to happen for the reasons cited about the current crop of competing devices and the fact that Authinx is doing too little, too late and too slowly to be competitive and attract new users. Given the ownership background Tuice shared earlier, sadly, that's completely understandable. 
 
  Whatever one may think about using Alexa/GH, someone looking to get started in HA will expect that capability.  Case in point, my friend, who is a 70 yo doctor, is building a new home and asked me about HA.  Although he doesn't use one now, his first statement was "How can I use Alexa to control our lights and stuff in our new home?"  Unfortunately, X10 could not be part of that conversation since he has neither the interest nor time to start playing with SBC's.  Like most people, he wants off-the-shelf plug & play, period.

  But back to the original question, "Is it time to move on?" I think is a very different question than, "Should I get started with X10?"  Who among us would tell my doctor friend to get started with X10?  Indeed, if you sold your own home today with all your X10 stuff (including spares) and had to start fresh in a new home, would you invest in X10 or "move on" to Zwave, WeMo or others?  OTOH, those of us here who have been using it for years and have worked around it's limitations to create a reliable system have no immediate need to replace it. 

For me at least, X10 is but a small part of my overall HA domain now.  Just today I had a ductless AC unit installed in the garage so I can actually do things out there without melting.  To automate that unit I bought a Cielo Breez for 99 bucks that emulates the IR remote that came with the unit.  The Breez has an app with geofencing and an Alexa skill and the whole thing took 15 minutes to set up.  It joins 6 or 7 other bridges to various devices that are controlled outside of my X10 realm so in essence I guess I am moving on in a lot of areas that would previously have had non-lighting X10 involvement.
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Knightrider

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2018, 08:46:53 AM »

I'm not saying the cloud doesn't have it's place, but AHP has died. I'd like to fix what we had and add to it -- not abandon it and move in a new direction.

I guess it's a case of what I feel is right, not what's popular.

I'm an X10 oldtimer.
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dhouston

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2018, 09:06:56 AM »

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JeffVolp

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2018, 10:31:02 AM »

But back to the original question, "Is it time to move on?" I think is a very different question than, "Should I get started with X10?"  Who among us would tell my doctor friend to get started with X10?  Indeed, if you sold your own home today with all your X10 stuff (including spares) and had to start fresh in a new home, would you invest in X10 or "move on" to Zwave, WeMo or others?

I would certainly stick with X10 because I know how to make it work with virtual 100% reliability.  A problem I had with our irrigation system this past week turned out to be the solenoid on the valve itself.

While Tuicemen helped me integrate Alexa and we have a W100, we still pick up a PalmPad for manual control.  Though it is neat to control devices through a cell phone with the W100, we usually have a PalmPad just an arm reach away.  And pushing a button on the PalmPad is faster than bringing up the X10 app or yelling to Alexa.

Because the CM15A had not yet been released when we built this house, and I was concerned about relying on a beta CM14A, I went with the Ocelot.  I programmed that 15 years ago, and except for adjusting the irrigation cycles to adhere to water restrictions, it has run unattended year after year, even correctly adjusting to the time shift.  Why change to another technology?

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2018, 11:11:33 AM »


Because the CM15A had not yet been released when we built this house, and I was concerned about relying on a beta CM14A, I went with the Ocelot.  I programmed that 15 years ago, and except for adjusting the irrigation cycles to adhere to water restrictions, it has run unattended year after year, even correctly adjusting to the time shift.  Why change to another technology?


I probably should have qualified my question by adding "Unless you're Jeff Volp"  ;D and I understand completely.  The reason I used X10 in this house was a) I had my Stargate (similar to the Ocelot) and, b) because of the superb job you did in creating the XTB-IIR and other items that make it all work. 
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Gismo

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2018, 02:14:00 PM »

Well, since I started this Thread, Iíd like to point out a few things that made me start it.
First, yes Iíve been using x10 for 30+ years, and yes Iím one of the old guys and retired with 40 years of engineering experience.
Without a new and better AHP available for the CM15 module, and or a WiFi module the interacts with Alexa or Google, the younger generation is not going to go x10. A lot canít even use the software on newer computers, or would not even know how. Which basically means few sales for x10. Most people want HA to be easy, not programming macros to do things, only us techy old people enjoy that.  ::)

So without new sales how will x10 survive?

I purchased 10 WiFi plugs for less than the price of one x10 WiFi unit, and my plugs are Ul rated. The free app that I use can do everything I need. Example,  I can turn on my all my home theater system equipment, dim lights, make popcorn, just by saying Alexa movie time. Lol

I would have loved to see x10 leap ahead of all the new HA options.  But I donít see that ever happening, but maybe I could be wrong, maybe .

I know enough on how to secure my WiFi signal. I refuse to use smart locks.  I installed a hard wired alarm in my house 35 years ago (Radio Shack - powerhouse - x10  compatible system) that works  flawlessly so I know x10 products were great.

I still may keep my x10 stuff (thanks to some posters saying keep an additional HA type in my setup) and thinking to reinstall my CM15 because I have a few wall switches, that control some outdoor lights as just timers, because the WiFi wall switches are not cost effective right now.

Today most people have no idea what x10 is or was,  kind of like a rotary telephone lol.

So thatís my reason of this thread. At least brought up some great information.

Peace  8)
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Tuicemen

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2018, 02:44:59 PM »

It really is easy to add Alexa control of your current and possibly future x10 devices any number of ways.
HA-bridge is the key component. ;)

For less then $15 US you can get a Pi Zero W and turn it into a simple Alexa hub with the Cm15 or cm19 connected to it.
You don't have to do the CM15 mod I did http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30322.msg173669#msg173669
but it makes for a clean look.
HA-Bridge will allow control just about any HA protocol smart or not.
 >!

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dhouston

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2018, 03:27:58 PM »

I still may keep my x10 stuff (thanks to some posters saying keep an additional HA type in my setup) and thinking to reinstall my CM15 because I have a few wall switches, that control some outdoor lights as just timers, because the WiFi wall switches are not cost effective right now.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-t1-us.html

I don't know whether these are UL but the price is reasonable.
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Gismo

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2018, 04:10:56 PM »

I still may keep my x10 stuff (thanks to some posters saying keep an additional HA type in my setup) and thinking to reinstall my CM15 because I have a few wall switches, that control some outdoor lights as just timers, because the WiFi wall switches are not cost effective right now.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-t1-us.html

I don't know whether these are UL but the price is reasonable.

I heard of them before, not UL.
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bkenobi

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #85 on: August 24, 2018, 05:27:44 PM »

The thing is, if you have a good HA controller (be it an off the shelf or DIY), you can use any combination of systems without worrying about whether it will work together.  That does potentially mean more controllers that must connect to said HA box, but in the end, I think we all just want things to work seamlessly.

My preference would be for a lot of options but I don't think X10 or any other single manufacturer has both the variety of modules, excellent coverage/range, affordable price, long term reliability/longevity, etc.  I started with X10 because it had a couple of these nailed (price being the biggest one).  I was not aware of the horrible range and reliability issues.  Had I known then, I'd have probably opted for something else.

In no particular order, the modules I see as mandatory:
- dimmer switch with option to NOT have ramp (both decora and rocker)
- on/off/relay switch (both decora and rocker)
- companion to other switches if not already 3-way compatible (both decora and rocker) bonus if this can be done without traveler
- duplex outlet
- wire-in dimmer module
- wire-in on/off/relay module
- plug-in dimmer module
- plug-in on/off/relay module
- wire-in motion sensor
- battery powered motion sensor
- customizable triggered module (think power flash)

The thing is, I haven't seen any affordable system that does everything.  I've seen some that do a lot but have holes (like only plug-in modules rather than wired-in).  Even X10 is missing the wired-in motion sensors (without some kind of a hack anyway).

HA Dave

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Re: It’s time to move on
« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2018, 07:33:34 PM »

Who needs Alexa when you can just talk to the hand?https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/22/three-square-market-plans-gps-chip-dementia-patients.html

As soon as more security modules become readily available at a decent price.... I am in. Many of us have glasses or contacts, crowns, bridges, or implants, joints replaced or just screws from repairs to broken bones. The man-machine interface began many years ago.

But I still want the power and convenience of AI. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 07:40:39 PM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #87 on: August 24, 2018, 08:13:56 PM »

Well, since I started this Thread......
So without new sales how will x10 survive?

I purchased 10 WiFi plugs for less than the price of one x10 WiFi unit...ÖÖ. I can turn on my all my home theater system equipment, dim lights, make popcorn, just by saying Alexa movie time. Lol

I would have loved to see x10 leap ahead of all the new HA options.  But I donít see that ever happening, but maybe I could be wrong, maybe .

I still may keep my x10 stuff ÖÖ..

You started an excellent thread... I've enjoyed following it... and commenting in it. I too wonder if X10 has either the motivation or the time... to remain a marketable brand. I too am using a mixed set-up... I've never felt compelled to "centralize" my setup. And it has never been easier to mix the parts and pieces... than it is now. 

I also would love to see X10 rise again! Or maybe I'd just like for myself to be a more hopeful... less pragmatic person. Thanks again... for causing us all to think about the state of Home Automation... and where X10 stands in todays use of HA products.
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Gismo

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #88 on: August 24, 2018, 10:39:25 PM »

Well, since I started this Thread......
So without new sales how will x10 survive?

I purchased 10 WiFi plugs for less than the price of one x10 WiFi unit...ÖÖ. I can turn on my all my home theater system equipment, dim lights, make popcorn, just by saying Alexa movie time. Lol

I would have loved to see x10 leap ahead of all the new HA options.  But I donít see that ever happening, but maybe I could be wrong, maybe .

I still may keep my x10 stuff ÖÖ..

You started an excellent thread... I've enjoyed following it... and commenting in it. I too wonder if X10 has either the motivation or the time... to remain a marketable brand. I too am using a mixed set-up... I've never felt compelled to "centralize" my setup. And it has never been easier to mix the parts and pieces... than it is now. 

I also would love to see X10 rise again! Or maybe I'd just like for myself to be a more hopeful... less pragmatic person. Thanks again... for causing us all to think about the state of Home Automation... and where X10 stands in todays use of HA products.

Thank you HA Dave
Iíve enjoyed reading and learning about HA stuff from this BB.
NEVER  can learn enough.
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BackAgain

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2018, 07:43:26 AM »

I really, really, REALLY wish people would stop pushing the G and JeffBox type systems.  I'm seeing it mentioned on more and more sites, and it's getting offensive.  G and Jeff do NOT need to be involved in our daily lives to the point of turning things on and off and adjusting our thermostats.  I'm quite capable of standing up and walking to the thermostat to adjust it if I need to.  And it's better exercise than speaking to a control system a thousand miles or more away to do it for me.

Until and unless any of these new systems operate INSIDE MY OWN HOUSE ONLY with no need to phone home, I'm not interested.  AHP did that and still does for those who can make it work.  I got tired of trying to make it work with the need to add filters, couplers, amplifiers, etc.

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