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Author Topic: Itís time to move on  (Read 4233 times)

bkenobi

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2018, 12:06:02 PM »

It's really simple.  Every product has a EULA.  If you read it and don't agree with a section of the document, you have a choice.  I know what Alexa is doing for me and I know what Alexa is using my input for.  I opt to not use Alexa because I understand the trade off.  Others have the same choice and I certainly won't criticize either opinion.  I am not the only one who thinks people should be fully aware of what they are choosing when they purchase the product.

That said, I would fully support AI automation via Alexa etc IF I could control the data that fed into it and who got to use it for what.  If I created a local version of Alexa where the data went nowhere, I'd be all in!  If I could purchase a real Alexa and guarantee that only the specific search words I intended Alexa to utilize/hear were used, that would be no different than what I have agreed to with Google searches.  I simply don't see any need for an open mic that stores all conversations without any need or explicit consent.  This is not a tin-hat thing, it's a privacy thing.  But, others don't find that to be a problem, so they are more than free to do what they want (not my call...to each their own).

brobin

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2018, 12:45:10 PM »

I've tried to say specific things that would be of interest to advertisers to see if Amazon was selling or using the information for non-Alexa purposes and so far nothing.  For example, one day I talked extensively about planning a cruise to Cuba to see if I'd start getting ads for cruises but nothing came of it. Another day I talked about buying a new tablet - again nothing.  That said, I probably wouldn't talk about any nefarious plans without lowering the cone of silence.
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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2018, 01:34:52 PM »

ÖÖ Most of the "old guys" here embrace the tech we just point out the issues (flaws)! Remember your older then me!

Yeah... I try to read every post.... but if the majority of the forum is embracing the new technologies.... I've missed A LOT! I think many here are still referring to recent tech features as.... flaws.

I am older (than YOU and many others).... and well aware of the human paradigms that make up our personalities and dictate our behaviors. Graying hair doesn't force us to think like old men...ÖÖ it is just simpler, and easier, for old men to run with the old paradigms... instead of constantly disassembling old thought patterns and exploring new concepts. It is a lot of work to look at new ideas with a fresh and open mind. It's much easier to just make excuses.

I've had a GREAT centralized non-cloud based voice (and phone app) controlled system here for years (using BVC and Melloware). I switched to AI... because it has SO MUCH MORE to offer. There are NO flaws in the cloud. There are however huge intrusions by the US government into the privacy of everyone on Earth. Don't kid yourself that there is a home automation work-around that will prevent their intrusion.

Please don't take this personal Tom. There are many worse things than thinking like an old man. Most of my best friends are old men. 
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HA Dave

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Re: It’s time to move on
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2018, 01:58:48 PM »

……. I would fully support AI automation via Alexa etc IF I could control the data that fed into it and who got to use it for what.  I

You make some really great points about the collection of open data. Of course.... this post (the one I am typing now) is part of a global record that will last... maybe for centuries. That same global record... also preserves the data collected every time my cars goes anywhere... or even when I go for a bike ride (if I take my phone). Every TV show I watch, every web page I visit..... all collected. My car has a microphone, my TV has a microphone, so does 2 of my remote controls (and so on... and so forth) .

You ARE (you have my word on it) being spied on and watched. Any privacy you ever thought you had... you no-longer have. Unless you're referring to the "feeling of privacy". I don't know much about that. I am from a small town... and have never had that feeling.
 
I don't think anyone should switch to using Alexa.... if they don't want to. BUT... There are 126.22 million households in the United States. And 39 million Alexa users (in those same United States)! All I've ever tried to explain is... if X10 doesn't jump on this AI band wagon soon... there ain't going to be no X10 dance! 

The survival of X10 and all businesses depends on continued growth (new customers). The new growth in Home Automation... isn't old guys already on the X10 forum. It's the younger customers that would buy new products. Those potential younger customers are using Alexa and Google NOW. They need to be targeted and pursued. And X10 needs to have products to sell that would interest this new market.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 02:27:22 PM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: It’s time to move on
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2018, 02:09:51 PM »

I've tried to say specific things that would be of interest to advertisers to see if Amazon was selling or using the information for non-Alexa purposes and so far nothing.  For example, one day I talked extensively about planning a cruise to Cuba to see if I'd start getting ads for cruises but nothing came of it. …..

Yet.... last Christmas when my wife and I talked about such things.... we saw Christmas ad's for things we (and millions of others) had thought about buying.

It's a hoax... that conversations are recorded and treated as internet searches. The fact is.... we so casually divert from normal on-line activities to pursue sales info that we self-report our own interests (without even realizing we did it).

The human algorithm being pursued may be consuming huge tax "investments"... but produce about as much usable info as talking out-loud going to Cuba. Although... I would never post on-line about visiting Cuba.... I don't think the NSA would like that.  rofl
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 02:21:24 PM by HA Dave »
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BackAgain

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2018, 02:38:18 PM »

The old guys (a big part of the forum) are afraid of the very technology that 90% of the general population WANTS in a Home Automation product.
I don't believe that! Most of the "old guys" here embrace the tech we just point out the issues (flaws)! Remember your older then me!

We point out the flaws so others are aware and to take steps in case! We'll not be the ones that say
 "I didn't know that could happen!"
or
"Why didn't some one tell me that could happen?"


I think of the multitude of hack and identity theft cases and wonder why people so freely give up so much personal information.  I believe there will come a day when they will regret doing so.



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BackAgain

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2018, 02:44:19 PM »

It won't be long before we see cases of burglary aided by these devices.  Having hacked the system days or weeks prior, they'll have a complete inventory of 'smart' devices before they go in.  They'll know when the occupants are gone by various 'social' web posts and status indicators of the devices.  Just to be sure, they'll remotely view the cameras in and around the house or business.  When the time comes, they won't even need to damage the door, they'll just log in and send a command to unlock the 'smart' lock.  They may even know what kind of beer or wine is in the 'smart' fridge.

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BackAgain

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2018, 02:46:38 PM »

Or perhaps authorities will gain access via a warrant and view the 'herb' garden, then have the system unlock the doors to enter and make the arrests.

 
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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2018, 03:12:14 PM »

the multitude of hack
identity theft
personal information
regret

I hear (read) your (and others) fears Yet... here you are on-line... as are the others with the same fears. I can't honestly say (post) I understand where you're coming from. Do you believe you will somehow be safer if X10's customer base dries-up... and we lose this resource?
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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2018, 03:17:24 PM »

Or perhaps authorities will gain access via a warrant and view the 'herb' garden, then have the system unlock the doors to enter and make the arrests.

InterestingÖ that you think technology would cause that. Crimes are and have always been... most often reported by friends, relatives, and loved ones. And... opening a door... has never slowed the police. These fears are unfounded. How will X10 not expanding, growing, or having a young customer base... harm your.... garden?
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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2018, 03:22:24 PM »

It won't be long before we see cases of burglary aided by these devices.  Having hacked the system days or weeks prior, they'll have a complete inventory of 'smart' devices before they go in.  They'll know when the occupants are gone by various 'social' web posts and status indicators of the devices.  Just to be sure, they'll remotely view the cameras in and around the house or business.  When the time comes, they won't even need to damage the door, they'll just log in and send a command to unlock the 'smart' lock.  They may even know what kind of beer or wine is in the 'smart' fridge.

Yeah.... sure! Geeky computer experts are going to replace the drug addled dip****s that normally kick a door open.... to steal medicine cabinet drugs and jewelry boxes. Then they hack the cars computer.... and have it drive to their house? Imaginative!
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BackAgain

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2018, 06:24:44 PM »

I can't honestly say (post) I understand where you're coming from. Do you believe you will somehow be safer if X10's customer base dries-up... and we lose this resource?

I have no personal information here so I have no0thing at risk.  If they somehow hacked into my router and/or PC, they might be able to see some naughty pictures, read some emails or writings, maybe get my bank and tyax information, etc.  But they would NOT be able to turn my lights or TV on or off, adjust my thermostat (some hackers just like to play around a bit to prove they were there), view my cameras live, turn my alarm system off,  unlock my doors or open my garage door and start my car(s).



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HA Dave

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2018, 08:41:01 PM »

Ö.I have no personal information here so I have no0thing at risk.ÖÖ

This IS a two-way connection you know! The anonymity you assume... does NOT exist.

But X10.... exploiting new technologies and finding a new customer base.... IN NO WAY... would threaten YOU. Just like with the Amazon or Google devices... if they scare you avoid them.
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Knightrider

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Re: Itís time to move on
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2018, 09:06:52 PM »

I'm just young enough to get smart about that cone of silence reference, but old enough to know my home internet is based on a cellular connection, and sometimes that connection fails.

I would therefore encourage the development of a local connection that isn't in the clouds.
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HA Dave

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Re: It’s time to move on
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2018, 11:07:15 PM »

I would therefore encourage the development of a local connection that isn't in the clouds.

Most of my setup works great even without an Internet connection. I know... because of some local infrastructure improvements that were made this past spring caused some frequent (although short) down time. But of course... short of cloud connectivity and computing... my setup is (almost) as dumb as a rock. I still have a couple macros that live on a CM15A. No one has suggested ridding the world of AHP.

But what confuses me.... is this thread is "It's about time to move on". Is it just me... or doesn't that mean we're questioning whether or not we should abandon X10. I believe we all know... that the Home Automation industry has changed. Technology products NEVER remain static. I don't know... but I get the impression that most of the X10 users/forum members here.... would rather see X10 die... than prosper.

X10 merely needs a cloud based device to stay current and viable. 39 million American Alexa users... and who knows how many Google users... want to control a couple things through those devices.... you know... for the fun of it. They can NOT do that with X10 now. And serious X10 users are stuck with choosing Homeseer or taking up a Raspberry Pi hobby.

A technologically modern X10 would have a chance of surviving this new age/glut of Home Automation products (just MHO). And how on Earth could a prosperous and viable X10 be a threat to anyone's automation setup.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 12:10:21 AM by HA Dave »
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