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Author Topic: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs  (Read 603 times)

dave w

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2018, 12:09:54 PM »

I have seen posts indicating that X10 support is not listed but still maybe supported.
FWIW
When I bought the Insteon I/O Links, I emailed Smarthome about X10 compatibility.
The answer was: on the site catalog pages look to see if the "Owner's Manual" is available as a pdf, and open it and look for X10 programming instructions. If present in the manual, the module is old and still supports X10.

I don't think any of the Dual Band stuff supports X10.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:11:29 PM by dave w »
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x10wizard

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2018, 12:37:20 PM »

As I posted 2 days ago in this same thread, the following current production Dual-Band Insteon devices still support X10 and also work well with dimmable LED bulbs, but they do require a neutral wire:
Insteon 2334-222 Dimmer Keypad 8-Button Dual-Band Revision 8.0
Insteon 2334-232 Dimmer Keypad 6-Button Dual-Band Revision 8.0
Insteon 2477D Dimmer Switch Dual-Band Revision 8.2

I just recently purchased some 2477D Dimmer Switches Dual-Band Rev 8.2 from Smarthome to keep as spares, and I did a bench test to verify that it still supports X10 (contrary to what it says in the latest 2477D manual).

I also recently purchased some 2334-222 and 2334-232 Dimmer Keypads Dual-Band Rev 8.0 from Smarthome to keep as spares, and I did bench tests to verify that these both still support X10 (the manual for these is correct in that it still refers to support for X10).

Brian H is right in that Insteon has said they may remove X10 support sometime in the future.  Sean (a senior tech manager at Insteon) has stated, in emails to me about this very subject, that Insteon will make an announcement ahead of time if they decide to remove X10 support.

Brian H is also right about the 2413 modules.  Time will tell if the latest versions hold up better.



 
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x10wizard

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2018, 12:55:35 PM »

You can't always rely on what the tech support people at Smarthome tell you.  They sometimes get it wrong.

Some of the Dual-Band "stuff" DOES in fact support X10. 
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dave w

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2018, 01:01:09 PM »

All good to know, but now it is even more risky figuring out if any of the newer Insteon stuff is still compatible. This post would be good as a stickie.
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Brian H

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2018, 01:51:17 PM »

Like my Dual Band 2457D2 LampLinc code:4413 and 2635-222 On/Off module Code:1714 both accept an X10 address.
Can't say about the presently being sold ones. Mine are not brand new.

Same for the 2413S PLM X10 not listed in the sales literature but still does. Mine is a hardware 2.4. I see they now have increased the Insteon Link Database to 2000 from the 1000 in the earlier hardware. So I can't say if X10 is still supported.
I suspect they are now 2.5 or maybe higher.

The 2450 I/OLinc is an older design. I suspect it will support X10 until they replace it with a Dual Band Model. They did change the main filter capacitors value and voltage. In my 2.3 over the 1.0 and again over 1.8
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Travasaurus

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X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2018, 11:16:53 PM »

I kind of lost track of this Forum as I was focusing on the SmartHome one instead.  I have since decided to bite the bullet and have resigned myself to getting a "neutral" wire installed so I can move on down the road.  As such, the only genuine X-10 switch that's been "guaranteed" to work with dimmable LED bulbs is the XPDI3 Dimmer, 120 VAC 500W Inductive Wall Switch.  Now I'm just looking for someone who's had some practical experience with this one so I'll know I'm not just getting a bunch of hyped-up nonsense. If the thing has a money-back guarantee then that's even better.  This way I don't have to fret over various Insteon devices' "incompatibility" with my X-10 remote controls.  Plus this is just a single-switch installation, not a 2-way setup.  Any input from the Experts here would be more than welcome (especially before I have to pay my electrician a small fortune to install the neutral line).  Thanks and standing by...
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Brian H

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2018, 01:33:36 AM »

You may want to use the Advanced Search function here. For the key word XPDI3. I found around 95 posts with XPDI3 in them. That may give you some information along with users exact information.

Due to electronics designs. You may still find some combinations of bulb and XPDI3 working fine and others maybe less than 100% compatible. Manufacturers use to have tested with lists.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 01:45:58 AM by Brian H »
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x10wizard

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2018, 08:20:48 AM »

To review:

You have a bathroom vanity light fixture with 3 light bulb sockets,
and the neutral wire is at the fixture, not at the switch.

You were using an X10 PLW01 wall switch with incandescent bulbs,
controlled by an X10 HR12A remote.

Then you changed to MaxLite G25 LED dimmable 10W (100W equivalent) bulbs,
and now the X10 PLW01 wall switch doesnít work with the LED bulbs.

So now you are having an electrician run a new wire to get neutral at the switch,
and want to know if the X10 XPDI3 dimmer switch will work.

Specs for the XPDI3 say minimum 40W, and since you only have 30W, THIS IS LIKELY A PROBLEM.  The XPDI3 is not a true rocker, it is a pushbutton dimmer switch with a paddle that overlays a single pushbutton hidden beneath the paddle.  The XPDI3 is a receiver only Ö it responds to X10 commands and controls the connected load, but it does not transmit X10 signals when the paddle is pressed.

A better choice is the Insteon 2477D Dimmer Switch.   The current production version, Revision 8.2, still supports X10, and it even supports X10 Scenes.   It is a true rocker dimmer switch.  It has LEDs to indicate the level of brightness of the load.  It is both an X10 receiver and an X10 transmitter.  It can be set to have any default level of load brightness, and any ramp rate.

Furthermore, since you are using an HR12A remote, with the 2477Dís X10 Scene capability, you could have different buttons on the remote correspond to different levels of brightness.   For example, using an ďAĒ housecode remote, you could have button 1 (A1) correspond to full brightness, button 2 (A2) correspond to 70% brightness, and button 3 (A3) correspond to 20% brightness.  You will need an X10 Maxi-Controller (or equivalent controller) to set up the X10 addresses in the 2477D.

I have a 2477D Rev 7.8, wired to a fixture with 3 Cree 4Flow LED dimmable 6W (40W equivalent) bulbs.  Iím using the 2477D in X10 mode only (not Insteon mode), and I also have an X10 Scene address set in it.   It works perfectly.
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dave w

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Re: X-10 Problems With LED Bulbs
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2018, 11:37:01 AM »

If the thing has a money-back guarantee then that's even better. 
That probably isn't gonna happen. Too much variation in what various manufacturers call "Dimmable". "Dimmable" on an old phase shift dimmer might not be dimmable on a X10 dimmer.  Neutral line will help but no guarantee.
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