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Author Topic: CM15a works with RF but not with PC  (Read 418 times)

jimsl78

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CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« on: June 29, 2018, 03:02:31 PM »

I've had a fairly reliable system until major power surge recently took out all 3 of my Leviton 6291 relay switches.
I just replaced them with new X10 XPS4 relay switches.
I am running a CM15A interface with a XPCR coupler-repeater-amplifier installed at the panel. 
This setup was working fine before, but now the new switches only respond to "OFF" commands from my PC / interface timer, however the new switches respond well to both ON and OFF with my PHR03 RF remote through that same CM15A interface.
I'm wondering if the XPS4 switches aren't at good at picking up the weak signal from the CM15a as the Leviton 6291's were.
I'm wondering that maybe the CM15a was also damaged and sending a very weak "ON" command. So do I get a new CM15a or XTBR signal booster? will the  XTBR work with the XPCR I have at my panel?
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HA Dave

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2018, 03:34:57 PM »

…. major power surge recently took out all 3 of my Leviton 6291 relay switches.
I just replaced them with new X10 XPS4 relay switches.…....

I'm wondering if the XPS4 switches aren't at good at picking up the weak signal from the CM15a as the Leviton 6291's were.

I'm wondering that maybe the CM15a was also damaged and sending a very weak "ON" command.

I had a lighting strike in my backyard a few years ago. I lost some electronics immediately.... some others seemed to fail shortly thereafter. I'm wondering…. if maybe other damaged electronic on your powerline might be causing additional noise you didn't have before.
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jimsl78

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2018, 04:31:46 PM »

Quote
I'm wondering…. if maybe other damaged electronic on your powerline might be causing additional noise you didn't have before.
I don't see any other electronics affected, The CM15a was plugged into the same outlet as a surge protector that also blew.
If it was additional noise causing this, why  wouldn't it affect the RF generated signal that's transmitted through the same CM15a?
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JeffVolp

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 05:06:13 PM »


Will the  XTBR work with the XPCR I have at my panel?

It is not a good idea to have more than one repeater in an installation due to the potential for "command ping-pong", which is when two repeaters bounce a command back and forth between each other.  Also, the XTBR pumps out a much stronger signal than the XPCR, but the XPCR will use its own transmitter to send the signal on the opposite phase.  So only the phase the XTBR is plugged into would receive the stronger signal.  If you really want to use the XTBR, you should replace the XPCR with a good tuned-circuit passive coupler, such as the X10 XPCP.

Regarding your initial problem, Leviton switches responded to extended commands.  If you haven't already done so, you might want to try redefining the new switches in your program to make sure the CM15A is sending the correct commands for them.

Jeff
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jimsl78

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2018, 02:23:20 AM »

Thanks Jeff
The ping pong scenario was something I was concerned about. I will probably get the XTBR and a passive coupler.
Isn't an extended signal just used for dimming? ( I don't use dimming) I cant find an option in my AHP program to send or not send "extended signals" I even deleted one module and re created it to see if that made a difference.
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JeffVolp

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2018, 05:33:02 AM »

Thanks Jeff
The ping pong scenario was something I was concerned about. I will probably get the XTBR and a passive coupler.
Isn't an extended signal just used for dimming? ( I don't use dimming) I cant find an option in my AHP program to send or not send "extended signals" I even deleted one module and re created it to see if that made a difference.

Our Ocelot sends extended commands to turn on our Leviton dimmers at max brightness.  I don't know if AHP also uses an extended command to switch on the Leviton 6291, but that might cause the symptom you describe.  It should be easy to test.

Jeff
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jimsl78

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2018, 07:23:50 AM »

With the Leviton 6291 being a non dimmable relay switch, I selected the x 10 florescent wall switch in AHP "programing".
That said I will try programing it with a different type of module and see what happens.
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Brian H

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2018, 07:27:07 AM »

Have you been able to verify. The XPCR was not damaged by the power issues?
The XPS4 has AGC in it and in theory be better than the XPS3 it replaced. In most cases.
What have you defined the XPS4 in AHP. As it was developed after the last AHP revision was released? You may want to try Pro tab. XPS3.


« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 07:28:52 AM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 10:36:24 AM »

Just to review to make sure I understood the problem:

1)  Using the CM15A as your RF transceiver, the switch works properly ON & OFF when commanded by a wireless remote.

2)  You don't have another transceiver that could also be relaying the wireless commands to the powerline.

3)  Commands from AHP sent through the CM15A will not turn the switch ON, but they will turn it OFF.

4)  This is a solid failure, and not an occasional missed ON command from AHP.

If this is the case, the CM15A is the transmitter for when it works and when it does not.  The signal path would be the same, so I don't see how the XPCR could be a factor.  That's why I suggested the CM15A might be sending a different ON command when controlled by AHP versus the standard ON command sent by the wireless remote.  Of course there might be another factor, such as a noise source or signal sucker interfering with the command when it was sent from AHP.

Jeff
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Tuicemen

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2018, 01:20:39 AM »

Make sure the USB cable is fully seated both in the CM15 and PC.
Also try another USB port & or cable.
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JeffVolp

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2018, 01:37:04 AM »

Make sure the USB cable is fully seated both in the CM15 and PC.
Also try another USB port & or cable.

A bad USB cable wouldn't explain why just the ON command doesn't work.

Jeff
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Tuicemen

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2018, 01:47:25 AM »

Maybe not, (just throwing out ideas) but if it isn't fitting snug all kinds on issue appear.
I had a USB cable get bumped from the CM15 and it became lose. I don't remember if it was at the PC or CM15 but when I attempted to replace the cable I noticed it wasn't fully seated. Pushing it back in snug fixed my issue however I ended up using the replacement as it fit tighter.
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jimsl78

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2018, 01:49:29 AM »

Just to review to make sure I understood the problem:

1)  Using the CM15A as your RF transceiver, the switch works properly ON & OFF when commanded by a wireless remote.

2)  You don't have another transceiver that could also be relaying the wireless commands to the powerline.

3)  Commands from AHP sent through the CM15A will not turn the switch ON, but they will turn it OFF.

4)  This is a solid failure, and not an occasional missed ON command from AHP.

If this is the case, the CM15A is the transmitter for when it works and when it does not.  The signal path would be the same, so I don't see how the XPCR could be a factor.  That's why I suggested the CM15A might be sending a different ON command when controlled by AHP versus the standard ON command sent by the wireless remote.  Of course there might be another factor, such as a noise source or signal sucker interfering with the command when it was sent from AHP.

Jeff

 That summarizes it well.
I was wondering if its possible that the CM15A sends a stronger or different signal when sent by the wireless remote. Maybe The CM15A a was damaged in the power surge as well.
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JeffVolp

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2018, 01:59:05 AM »

I was wondering if its possible that the CM15A sends a stronger or different signal when sent by the wireless remote.

The signal strength would be the same for either case, but it is possible the CM15A might be sending different ON commands.  That's why I suggested redefining the switch as no longer a Leviton switch.

The one other possibility is that when you send wireless commands, the transceiver relays the commands to the powerline as long as the button is pressed.  So if the light doesn't immediately respond, holding the button down would continue to send commands until one gets through.

Jeff
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jimsl78

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Re: CM15a works with RF but not with PC
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2018, 02:00:02 AM »

Maybe not, (just throwing out ideas) but if it isn't fitting snug all kinds on issue appear.
I had a USB cable get bumped from the CM15 and it became lose. I don't remember if it was at the PC or CM15 but when I attempted to replace the cable I noticed it wasn't fully seated. Pushing it back in snug fixed my issue however I ended up using the replacement as it fit tighter.
Thanks Tuicemen, I put the CM15A in other outlets around the house, cleared and re downloaded interface memory, I wont respond to timer generated ON commands as well. I think this confirms the USB isn't an issue.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 02:48:14 AM by Tuicemen »
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