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Author Topic: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi  (Read 6977 times)

Tuicemen

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2018, 05:57:07 PM »

Home automation is a marathon and not a sprint. If you’re looking for a quick fix Linux/Raspbian is not for you no matter how many scripts are written for you. You are depending on the people who write those scripts to maintain them for you.
I managed to create a few scripts mainly to help myself with installing and I posted the manual install prior for those that wish to know what to expect or if they wished to do the manual install.
With the manual install laid out for you it is very easy to fix a broken script.
Since your a cut and paste guy you should know that. Linux scripts are basically the same as a windows batch file (maybe easier to create).
I gave up on HG on windows as way too buggy, moved back to AHP but bought a Pi zero W and tried installing HG with no success,
The HG step by step walk though I posted here http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30427.msg174845#msg174845 failed for you?
That install can't be made much more simpler other then an image or a Kiss script,
which by the way are very easy to write they simply include the lines posted in a manual install.
Quote
So I like the idea above and ask you all to consider one up on it:   

POST THE LIST OF POTENTIAL HA PROGRAMS AND UNDER EACH INCLUDE A LINK TO A SELF INSTALLING MEM CARD IMAGE.

Then those of us without linux experience, with day jobs, can experiment with them!
The images will not work for everyone and many softwares don't produce one probably for that reason.
Scripts I posted in the Kiss Script section however should work for all PIs if the software it is installing will work on said PI.
I realize playing in Linux can get frustrating I as well have had a few frustrating moments And if it came across that I was angry with anyone this was not the case and I'm sorry if it appeared that way.
probably the most frustration comes from trying to help others and being ignored. To those that don't wish help from an individual just say so.

I've decided to make Home Genie my prime PI software. It may be lacking in features the other bigger softwares have but it works best for X10 and does things with X10 other softwares can't without users hacking together work arrounds.
All the Linux Softwares I tried have limitations when it comes to X10. And this just may mean I'll have to create my own however for now I'm happy with HG.
 >!

« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 06:35:54 PM by Tuicemen »
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mike

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2018, 06:32:24 PM »

Great comments, thanks! 

I had no intention of making NEW work for anyone!   ALL the HA variations listed have how to install links.  Some better than others.  Even individuals like our wonderful tuicemen has written such for various HA programs.    That is all I meant.  List the HA, then list under it the best available install routine, be it a complete image or a step by step.

With that documented in one place, I feel it would get many others to jump on board and try them. 

As for me, OpenHab is not for me, I am on to trying domotzit.  Ho to install on pi zero W:   https://domaciautomatizace.blogspot.com/2017/01/instalace-domoticz-na-raspberry-pi-zero.html

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petera

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2018, 07:17:00 PM »

Just for the record I’m not a “cut and paste guy”. I was merely pointing potential users to locations where they could read up on the software they were hoping to install. Shortcuts to success can be handy in the short term but usually come back to bite you.

I generally read up on software I intend to use and familiarise myself with its workings. Others may not share my philosophy but I don’t expect others to do the hard work for me while I enjoy the benefits.

I do understand that Linux users are not exactly flavour of the month on this forum and MS Windows is the defacto way of doing things here. What I will say is that all the life jackets and sticking plasters applied to AHP is only delaying the inevitable. Maybe someone in the Windows world will step in produce an alternative and save the day for X10. Until then I was just proposing an alternative platform that has clearly proven to work.

I think at this stage that enough Raspberry Pi platforms have been suggested to allow people decide if the Raspberry Pi is actually for them. If someone does want to start writing scripts to help people try these platforms that’s great but you really do need some knowledge of Linux. Finding your way around the file and folder structure to locate where you’ve just installed your platform   can be an ordeal in itself.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2018, 08:49:13 PM »

Just for the record I’m not a “cut and paste guy”. I was merely pointing potential users to locations where they could read up on the software they were hoping to install. Shortcuts to success can be handy in the short term but usually come back to bite you.

I generally read up on software I intend to use and familiarise myself with its workings. Others may not share my philosophy but I don’t expect others to do the hard work for me while I enjoy the benefits.

Sorry if the term "cut and paste guy" offended you. I merely meant you were familiar with doing that to save possible errors.

Any one that doesn't read up on a PI system prior to installing will almost always be disappointed or run into issues. Band aids or user work arounds are not the solution to any Home Automation software be it Home Assistant  or Active Home Pro most are only temporary fixes.

 Users need to find what works for them, If they wish to spend weeks to setup or just hours it has to work for their needs. Asking for others opinions about a software and getting a bad review of it usually doesn't stop me from at least attempting to install it. I love to read success stories over please help me ones, the forums (not just this one )are full of "it doesn't work Please help" posts.

Finding ones way around the linux file  and folder structure really is that difficult using the GUI, using the terminal can be without knowing all the correct lingo.
As I said the scripts I posted here were created to help me with reinstalls which I thought others may find helpful to speed up their installs, reinstalls as well. sure I could just use a SD backup but at the moment my spares are in use testing other software.
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petera

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2018, 09:28:52 PM »

Just for the record I’m not a “cut and paste guy”. I was merely pointing potential users to locations where they could read up on the software they were hoping to install. Shortcuts to success can be handy in the short term but usually come back to bite you.

I generally read up on software I intend to use and familiarise myself with its workings. Others may not share my philosophy but I don’t expect others to do the hard work for me while I enjoy the benefits.

Sorry if the term "cut and paste guy" offended you. I merely meant you were familiar with doing that to save possible errors.

Any one that doesn't read up on a PI system prior to installing will almost always be disappointed or run into issues. Band aids or user work arounds are not the solution to any Home Automation software be it Home Assistant  or Active Home Pro most are only temporary fixes.

 Users need to find what works for them, If they wish to spend weeks to setup or just hours it has to work for their needs. Asking for others opinions about a software and getting a bad review of it usually doesn't stop me from at least attempting to install it. I love to read success stories over please help me ones, the forums (not just this one )are full of "it doesn't work Please help" posts.

Finding ones way around the linux file  and folder structure really is that difficult using the GUI, using the terminal can be without knowing all the correct lingo.
As I said the scripts I posted here were created to help me with reinstalls which I thought others may find helpful to speed up their installs, reinstalls as well. sure I could just use a SD backup but at the moment my spares are in use testing other software.

One simple command applied in the right context and applied to the right area of the Linux file system will tell you so much about what is going on under the hood. By the same token used in the wrong area in the wrong context it will cause havoc. That's why the system is based on permissions and ownership.

It was never my intention to get into a debate about which OS is more capable than the other. Each has it's merits. My only intention was to point out that X10 in the Linux environment does look like it has a role to play in home automation. Yes a little effort does need to be invested to achieve this goal.

To dismiss a solution because it's not the way MS Windows does it tends to display a closed mind attitude.

For pure X10 functionality Linux has the solution for X10 which is not that difficult to implement. The difficulties arise for some when other elements of home automation are required.

Python is a very powerful English language like scripting but it needs a little time and effort invested into it to appreciate the power it can unleash. I just refer to the comments of iviper and what he has achieved in such a short space of time.

All I can say at this stage is that people who provide commentary on others endevours appreciate the time and effort that went into them rather than adopt a negative approach which at the end of the day discourages people from bringing solutions to the table in the first place.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2018, 08:26:10 AM »

All I can say at this stage is that people who provide commentary on others endevours appreciate the time and effort that went into them rather than adopt a negative approach which at the end of the day discourages people from bringing solutions to the table in the first place.
I totally agree!
Brings to mind the old saying about one bad apple. ::) :'

I tried a few different Home Automation softwares and I do like what can be done with Linux on a PI.
There are some good programs out there and some poor ones just like any OS.
Users especially new to Pi and Linux need to find what works for them for their basic requirements.
Once they have that working they can expand on it in a number of different ways. Programing is just one way.
If they have issues, work with those trying to help, it benefits everyone when the issue gets resolved.
Most of the Home Automation programs for Linux have additional tools so extras can be added by anyone willing to spend time to create. If they share their creations even better.

I understand the frustration of newbies trying to setup a new program on Linux all to well and must apologize again to all who I may have taken my frustration as anger being directed at them specifically.
The typed word can be taken in several different contexts, and sadly mine is taken in the wrong way many times. :-[ :-[

I understand Mikes wishing a list of programs containing what interface works with them.
I ruled out a couple options after mistakenly reading or assuming the CM15 wasn't supported.
Many do they just list the support as being for mochad B:(
Providing a link to the softwares info page is a nice touch but really Google will provide that.

Petera, Thanks for all the help  and info you have provided my in my endeavors with the PI. I haven't said that enough.  >!
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mike

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 11:58:30 AM »

Not trying to be that bad apple, but my my, rasberry pi's are EXPENSIVE!  They are like fuses for me!

Had OpenHAB running on pi zero W, but wanted to try others.

Just downloaded domoticz to try, so loaded up a mem card with raspbian, it loaded, installed, looked good on the mini hdmi display...  but the mouse nor keyboard worked.. so I could not set up the wifi as openHab had done for me.  I was powering my 5 port usb adapter from usb output of windows computer. 

So decided to instead try powering my 5 port usb unit from wall wart.  Plugged it in and instant smoke again from pi.   (:

unplugging as fast as possible, pulled the mini hdmi plug and got a 1" long spark follow it!  board real hot in that area.  went back to computer for power but too late.  another one bites the dust...

jeesh.  These pi's are EXPENSIVE! 
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Tuicemen

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 12:26:51 PM »

Ya, the PIs can get expensive if your going though them like fuses.
Sorry to hear you went through another one.
You really should be opening the softwares web interface from your PCs browser.
There really is no need to have a mouse and keyboard connected to the Pi for any of these Home Automation projects.

My Pi Zerro is only connected to the CM15. all setups and programing are done from my PC. Either with PUTTY (SH into it) or from the Browser. Address to the software is always Pi's IP followed by the softwares Port eg:
http://192.168.0.15:8080

That being said I do use a USB mouse and keyboard on my 3B+ but it has the additional USB ports, no need to add a powered USB hub.
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petera

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2018, 02:08:27 PM »

Not trying to be that bad apple, but my my, rasberry pi's are EXPENSIVE!  They are like fuses for me!

Had OpenHAB running on pi zero W, but wanted to try others.

Just downloaded domoticz to try, so loaded up a mem card with raspbian, it loaded, installed, looked good on the mini hdmi display...  but the mouse nor keyboard worked.. so I could not set up the wifi as openHab had done for me.  I was powering my 5 port usb adapter from usb output of windows computer. 

So decided to instead try powering my 5 port usb unit from wall wart.  Plugged it in and instant smoke again from pi.   (:

unplugging as fast as possible, pulled the mini hdmi plug and got a 1" long spark follow it!  board real hot in that area.  went back to computer for power but too late.  another one bites the dust...

jeesh.  These pi's are EXPENSIVE!

I've posted on numerous occasions how to create a wifi connection on a Raspberry Pi Zero without ever having to connect a keyboard, mouse or screen or ethernet to the Pi. This procedure is carried out after you have imaged Raspbian onto your SD card and before you have removed it from the SD card reader.

Here is the contents of the file you need to create

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
update_config=1
country=US

network={
     ssid="Your network name/SSID"
     psk="Your WPA/WPA2 security key"
     key_mgmt=WPA-PSK
}

Here is the procedure you need to follow to achieve this https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=203716

The other file you need to add to the SD card is a blank text file saved as SSH. to enable SSH.

DO NOT attempt to connect an incorrectly rated powered USB hub to the Pi and ensure that the correctly rated and approved USB power supply is all that is used to power the Pi.

I still have my original Pi A model and a number of other models including the Pi Zero W and have not managed to fry any of them.
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mike

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 04:12:51 PM »

I guess I love pain;  I just bought another pi zero W from arduino for $10 plus $4.55 shipping.

I will try again.  I will not EVER plug in a separately powered USB hub.

I would LOVE to get into it via wifi;  only openHAB allowed that so far. 

I will try your scripts and hope for the best!

Thanks.

PS:  Since these seem like fuses, I tried to order 3pc with one shipping charge, but they do not allow that.  $ 14.50 each total or nothing.  I figure I will pop another 1 or 2 before I figure out their weak link issue that allows them to pop  like fuses....
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 04:15:10 PM by mike »
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mike

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 04:25:10 PM »

since fuses pop easy, I bought another (#4)....   crazy they cannot hook to hdmi and separately powered USB hub at same time without frying.   I will try the help offered by peterea and tuicemen to NOT hook up a hub anymore...  Thank you both.
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b0b99

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2018, 05:25:58 PM »

I wouldn't think the powered hub is the problem. I have a Plex server running on one of my Pi's with a powered hub to insure the external hard drive (which contains all the media files) has enough power. This has been running for months without a problem. I do however run all my PiIs (three of them) headless.

Bob
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bkenobi

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2018, 11:11:35 AM »

If people are willing to spend the time researching, the money to buy, and the time to configure the hardware, I am a bit confused why spending a little time on the software is a hangup.  I learned to use Linux originally when I was hacking on my TiVo's.  I didn't learn enough to do more than copy other people's code and I lost interest.  That was only because TiVo worked well enough as is and the few scripts I installed were basically copy/paste.

I do use Linux at work, but I don't do anything advanced in it.  I have IT staff that cover any real issues, so I'm still just a novice Linux user.  That said, with a little reading, a few dollars investment in a RPi, and some time tinkering I've been able to get a lot of different systems set up.  I'm not saying it's as easy as Windows HA, but that's primarily because the Windows crowd seems more willing to part with the contents of their wallets than those that use Linux.  There are a couple paid options on Linux (Homeseer being the main one) and they are great.  If you want a more DIY approach, you have to DIY...

I wanted open source in case the project died (HG would be dead if it wasn't open source).  I didn't realize how complicated HG was, so I'm not likely to code anything within the main system.  However, it has various scripting languages that range from easy (Wizard scripts akin to AHP) to real programming languages (C#, Python, etc).  Most of the flexibility in these systems is the fact that a REAL programming language is available.  It is not a negative, it is EXACTLY why I picked HG in the first place.  HASS, Domoticz, etc. also have these options, so they are on the same level.

I fully appreciate that it's intimidating to get started with Linux.  Ironically, that is exactly why the RPi was developed.  It was designed as a teaching tool to get students up to speed on Linux so they could have an affordable, fully capable computer that is capable of doing many things, programming included.  There are easy installations available to get going if you want to learn Linux or other languages.  However, if you just want a ready-to-run HA system, you will probably want to focus on one of the easier setups that either has an installation script or a RPi image.  HG used to have an image.  Domoticz has an installer (just flash Raspbian and run the installer).  Homeseer has an image.

petera

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2018, 12:10:31 PM »

If people are willing to spend the time researching, the money to buy, and the time to configure the hardware, I am a bit confused why spending a little time on the software is a hangup.  I learned to use Linux originally when I was hacking on my TiVo's.  I didn't learn enough to do more than copy other people's code and I lost interest.  That was only because TiVo worked well enough as is and the few scripts I installed were basically copy/paste.

I do use Linux at work, but I don't do anything advanced in it.  I have IT staff that cover any real issues, so I'm still just a novice Linux user.  That said, with a little reading, a few dollars investment in a RPi, and some time tinkering I've been able to get a lot of different systems set up.  I'm not saying it's as easy as Windows HA, but that's primarily because the Windows crowd seems more willing to part with the contents of their wallets than those that use Linux.  There are a couple paid options on Linux (Homeseer being the main one) and they are great.  If you want a more DIY approach, you have to DIY...

I wanted open source in case the project died (HG would be dead if it wasn't open source).  I didn't realize how complicated HG was, so I'm not likely to code anything within the main system.  However, it has various scripting languages that range from easy (Wizard scripts akin to AHP) to real programming languages (C#, Python, etc).  Most of the flexibility in these systems is the fact that a REAL programming language is available.  It is not a negative, it is EXACTLY why I picked HG in the first place.  HASS, Domoticz, etc. also have these options, so they are on the same level.

I fully appreciate that it's intimidating to get started with Linux.  Ironically, that is exactly why the RPi was developed.  It was designed as a teaching tool to get students up to speed on Linux so they could have an affordable, fully capable computer that is capable of doing many things, programming included.  There are easy installations available to get going if you want to learn Linux or other languages.  However, if you just want a ready-to-run HA system, you will probably want to focus on one of the easier setups that either has an installation script or a RPi image.  HG used to have an image.  Domoticz has an installer (just flash Raspbian and run the installer).  Homeseer has an image.

Totally agree.

If I find something that's beyond me I either read up on it or move on. What I don't do is sit there like a sniper in the bush having pot shots at it.

What I tend to do is introduce a concept to someone, point them in the right direction and if they do come unstuck point them in the right direction to get them back on track again. What I don't do is help someone who is sitting there with a blank SD card in their hands hoping for a miracle.

Linux experts don't exist. What does exist are people who have spent their time and energy researching the subject and when they do find a solution they share it with others. Give a little, get a little back philosophy. That concept has worked for the Linux community for years and still does and as a result developments like the Raspberry Pi arrived on the scene.

There is no great need to be what others have referred to as a "programmer" to develop home automation projects on the Raspberry Pi. In fact most of the programming has already been done. All that is required is the ability to gather together all these different programs under one roof, the Raspberry Pi and using some of the excellently developed frontends have them talking to each other and deliver results.

The majority of this can be achieved by way of cut and paste commands, once again not programming in any sense of the word. This modular approach allows users to slowly build on their projects while reading up and researching at the same time. No big strain on personal resources neither mental nor financial.

My suggestion to those who want a solution right now is to check the web or your local store for that one size fits all magic box that you just plug in and go. You may be lucky to find one and if you do make sure your wallet is well stuffed with dollars.

In the mean time you could spend a little time and energy very little money and, with a little patience, build your own solution with the help and guidance of others who have achieved this.


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mike

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Re: Different platforms for X10 on the Raspberry Pi
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2018, 01:51:22 PM »

I wouldn't think the powered hub is the problem. I have a Plex server running on one of my Pi's with a powered hub to insure the external hard drive (which contains all the media files) has enough power. This has been running for months without a problem. I do however run all my PiIs (three of them) headless.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I had a similar feeling but never pursued it - until just now...

The common denominator is HDMI AND black Wallwart.    I knew from the length of the arc unplugging mini HDMI the issue was not 5vdc but 120vac...  but I was lazy;  just bought a new pi.

So found one of the 120v plug pins on the wallwart USB supply  is 120 ohms to pin 1 of USB!   HAHA!   That is the +5vdc Vcc supply pin!  So depending how I plugged it in (it is unpolarized), I experimented enough times to put 120vac into the 5vdc line! 

Sheesh!  You cannot imagine how HARD I pitched that SOB in the trash can!!

Now to see if there is a pi zero W schematic online;  I might be able to revive one of these blow units...
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