Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7

Author Topic: Is it out again?  (Read 1614 times)

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 105
  • Posts: 2023
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 05:19:21 PM »

I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.

The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:

https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

petera

  • PI Expert
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 18
  • Posts: 796
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 05:59:46 PM »

I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.

The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:

https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll

Jeff

I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.

I'm assuming that none of the forum members have a commercial interest in the product other than owning one. It might be worth knocking heads together and coming up with an alternative that provides users with what they want. While the expectation would not be for anyone here to manufacture the unit, maybe a blueprint could be formulated using currently available technologies both hardware and software to arrive at an acceptable solution for all.
Logged

ceedee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 5
  • Posts: 153
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 06:36:16 PM »

I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.

The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:

https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll

Jeff

I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.

I'm assuming that none of the forum members have a commercial interest in the product other than owning one. It might be worth knocking heads together and coming up with an alternative that provides users with what they want. While the expectation would not be for anyone here to manufacture the unit, maybe a blueprint could be formulated using currently available technologies both hardware and software to arrive at an acceptable solution for all.

Honestly, itís not worth it to me.  Not worth the wait, not worth the extra $$. I am using the WM100 as a stopgap, while I slowly transition to more state-of-the-art technology. It was worth it to me to spend $100 to continue to use my X10 modules.  However, like others in this forum, I am not investing in additi9nal X10 hardware.  Itís a dying technology.
Logged

HA Dave

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 174
  • Posts: 6628
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 06:38:24 PM »

When first introduced, the WM100 was impressive. I think we were all hungry for something new.

The WM-100 is solid (as hardware)…. it's design problem is it's concept. It is a "not a cloud device".... at a time when the world runs... on the cloud.

I'm entrenched in Homeseer ...….So essentially I use the WM100 as a device remote control

I also use the WM-100 as a always handy (rarely used) remote. I am also a Homeseer user... although not a devotee. Homeseer isn't putting out any actual effort to attract (or even support) X10 users. I think... Samsung's Smart things Hub can replace Homeseer if I add/convert some switches to zwave. And begin the conversion... maybe leaning a bit on a CM15A. 

I do feel somewhat sorry for Authinx. It seems the tail (the manufacturer) is wagging the dog. But this sympathy is drifting away.

They don't seem to understand that technology isn't just hardware. They need in-house techies and code writers. They need to bring in people with logistic, marketing, and technology experience. They need a unified vision of a modern product line... and a plan to deliver it. Not a simple mission.   
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 06:42:45 PM by HA Dave »
Logged
Time marches on and we have to march with it. Otherwise, I'd still have my Commodore Vic 20.

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 105
  • Posts: 2023
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2018, 06:40:18 PM »

I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.

Except for battery backup for a real-time clock, the WM100 hardware seems to be fine.  It has a much more powerful transmitter than the older generation X10 controllers.  The flaws seem to be in firmware and software.  So I thought that a complete rebuild of the firmware/software could result in the product we all wanted.  The clock issue can be resolved by accessing the on-line US time reference:  https://time.gov/

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

Tuicemen

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 257
  • Posts: 8713
  • I don't work for X10, I use it successfuly!
    • Tuicemen Software
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2018, 08:08:16 PM »


I will say this much to Authinx "Don't underestimate us 'old X10 geezers'  ".
Basicaly what I stated to the owner when the developer told him no to providing the protocol for a resonable price.
I told him the developer should note:
It is just a mater of time before one of us figures it out and publishes our findings, the developer will then be without any compensation.

The web is full of info on hacking IOT devices, MQTT hacks and firmware hacking any one direction could be used.

Logged
Please Read Topic:
General Forum Etiquette
Before you post!

Find extra info @ My forum

Knightrider

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 62
  • Posts: 1739
  • I love my WM100!
    • This Automated House
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2018, 09:54:00 PM »

Better make sure the hack is a good one. I can see a trap being placed that would prevent the web server handshake.

Could be easy to brick these things.

A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate
Logged
Remote control is cool,

but automation rules!

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 105
  • Posts: 2023
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2018, 10:07:59 PM »

A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate

Yes, unless the current developer becomes much more responsive, I believe a clean sheet is needed there.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2422
    • davehouston.org
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2018, 03:06:09 PM »

A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate
Yes, unless the current developer becomes much more responsive, I believe a clean sheet is needed there.
In addition to the STM32F103RCT6 (MCU) there's an ESP-WROOM-02 (ESP8266 based WiFi module) and X24C64 (8KB EEPROM). That might really complicate any hack or clean sheet.
I think I'm also approaching the same twilight as the XTB line - were I not, I'd opt for replacing the daughterboard holding all the above with one holding an RPi Zero W plus RTC. That's also complicated since it requires disassembly, desoldering and soldering. Rather than mess with the (already messy) RPi options bandied about recently, I'd create something resembling a clean sheet using the BBC Basic compiler available for Raspian as well as most mobile platforms.
http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/

PS: I wonder why Authinx did not utilize the RTC built in to the STM32F103RCT6.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 03:09:03 PM by dhouston »
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

HA Dave

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 174
  • Posts: 6628
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2018, 07:29:08 PM »

I believe the owners of X10 fell into the same trap that this thread has fallen into.

Looking for fixes and solutions.... but without a special status or purpose in mind. Proceeding without a specific designation... is never efficient. I was always taught that you start with an honest evaluation as to where your at. Then you decide where you want/intend to end-up. The planning is filling in the blank space between where you're at... and where you want to be.

50 million people (39 million in the USA alone)… are willing to shell-out 100 and some bucks every year... to be Amazon Prime members. In part, the prime membership provides the basics for AI Home Automation. A GIANT step for mankind into the Home Automation market. It would be stupid-foolish for X10 to turn their backs on some many MILLIONS of potential customers.

For GODS sake... X10 could work with Samsung (smart thing hub) and arrange for an app and skill that would allow for a firecracker [CM19A] to be plug-n-play. This could/should be such a stupid-easy fix!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 12:51:44 AM by HA Dave »
Logged
Time marches on and we have to march with it. Otherwise, I'd still have my Commodore Vic 20.

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 105
  • Posts: 2023
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2018, 12:44:58 AM »

In addition to the STM32F103RCT6 (MCU) there's an ESP-WROOM-02 (ESP8266 based WiFi module) and X24C64 (8KB EEPROM). That might really complicate any hack or clean sheet.
I think I'm also approaching the same twilight as the XTB line - were I not, I'd opt for replacing the daughterboard holding all the above with one holding an RPi Zero W plus RTC. That's also complicated since it requires disassembly, desoldering and soldering. Rather than mess with the (already messy) RPi options bandied about recently, I'd create something resembling a clean sheet using the BBC Basic compiler available for Raspian as well as most mobile platforms.

Hence the need for a schematic to see how the WiFi module and EEPROM are connected.  Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.  What I had proposed was leaving the hardware alone and just redesign the operating system and supporting software to deal with the many issues that have been raised with the design as it now stands.  Hopefully the firmware and software could be just downloaded to the existing hardware.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2422
    • davehouston.org
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2018, 06:44:59 AM »

Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.
Your way likely restricts the market to masons (i.e. those skilled with brickwork).

Quote
Hopefully the firmware and software could be just downloaded to the existing hardware.
Hopefully is the key word. Without detailed knowledge of the existing firmware in both the WiFi module and MCU it's almost certain you will brick it.
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

Tuicemen

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 257
  • Posts: 8713
  • I don't work for X10, I use it successfuly!
    • Tuicemen Software
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2018, 08:36:51 AM »

I had started a thread on my forum prior to the WM100 initial release to hack the wm100.
http://forums.tuicemen.net/index.php?topic=1192.msg7335#msg7335
I seen back then this would possibly need to be done in order to get the options we needed and wanted. Sadly there wasn't much interest. Maybe now ::) :'
I had experiance with cloud dependednt devices prior (Sonoff) an knew these were hackable both with a firmware hack or using MQTT.I never looked into the MQTT option for Sonoff and just did a firmware flash of the Sonoff.

Later I discovered it is possible to hijack the initial setup of a Sonoff device and this may be the route to go for the WM100.
https://blog.ipsumdomus.com/sonoff-switch-complete-hack-without-firmware-upgrade-1b2d6632c01
Using this method would allow anyone to stop relying on the cloud server.
This method would still be limited to those comfortable with setting up their own server, until someone put together a simple sever anyone could install on a PC or SBC.



Logged
Please Read Topic:
General Forum Etiquette
Before you post!

Find extra info @ My forum

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2422
    • davehouston.org
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2018, 09:00:22 AM »

« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 09:04:37 AM by dhouston »
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

JeffVolp

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 105
  • Posts: 2023
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2018, 09:22:16 AM »

Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.
Your way likely restricts the market to masons (i.e. those skilled with brickwork).

I see you and I agree like we did on a prior project.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.