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Author Topic: Is it out again?  (Read 10241 times)

HA Dave

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2018, 11:13:22 PM »

The vision here is to dump the cloud.

The goal is LOCAL CONTROL

Yes, that was what I was proposing.  A clean sheet.  No Alibaba.  Nothing required external to your home….

Boy... are you guys lucky! I did a little searching and found the exact product of your vision(s).

But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers. AI has been the home automation dream for years. And now... we are at the very beginning and some people get a little creeped-out... or whatever. I think we ought to collectively man-up, face our fears, and boldly move forward.

That WM-100 should have had cloud connectivity and a skill available at Amazon.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 11:25:00 PM by HA Dave »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2018, 01:26:31 AM »

But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers.

Gee, I think I have a smart home.  Our Ocelot takes care of all lighting and irrigation.  Using simple thermistors, it calculates the temperature in degrees F, and adjusts irrigation cycles based on month and temperature, ranging from a single afternoon cycle weekly during the winter (when highs are still in the 50's) up to 3 early morning and nighttime cycles when the high is over 110F.  Inside and outside temperatures are monitored to control auxiliary ventilation in the garage and basement.  No connection to the cloud or a server is necessary.  And it has worked flawlessly for 15 years.

The microcontroller in the WM100 has enormous capability, so take advantage of it!  It is such a shame to be using it just as a simple timer and remote.  Since it doesn't look like the protocol will be released and the developer takes forever to do just simple bug fixes, the only option seems to be to undertake the development ourselves.

I totally agree that the WM100 should maintain its ability to be accessed remotely.  Since our Ocelot runs the house, that is the only thing I use ours for.  But I disagree with it requiring connection to the "cloud" for basic functionality, including timed events and complex macros.  It should not be slaved to a server that could disappear in the future.  And we all know that can happen.

Jeff
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dhouston

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2018, 07:39:46 AM »

But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers.

Gee, I think I have a smart home.  Our Ocelot takes care of all lighting and irrigation.  Using simple thermistors, it calculates the temperature in degrees F, and adjusts irrigation cycles based on month and temperature, ranging from a single afternoon cycle weekly during the winter (when highs are still in the 50's) up to 3 early morning and nighttime cycles when the high is over 110F.  Inside and outside temperatures are monitored to control auxiliary ventilation in the garage and basement.  No connection to the cloud or a server is necessary.  And it has worked flawlessly for 15 years.
And, should remote access (when out and about) become necessary or even just desirable it can be easily accomplished by adding a Serial to Ethernet module and using any of several free DDNS servers.
https://www.amazon.com/USR-TCP232-302-Serial-Ethernet-Converter-Support/dp/B01GPGPEBM/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1536491966&sr=8-9&keywords=ethernet+to+serial

https://www.noip.com/
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 08:07:20 AM by dhouston »
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Tuicemen

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2018, 07:54:21 AM »

The goal is LOCAL CONTROL with optional cloudy skies (easy to implement for the past 17-18 years).

Jeff has said he will not create it and I've intimated that I will not create it so I guess that leaves it up to Tuicemen. rofl
Well that probably won't happen I simply don't have all the skills required. :(
And probably don't have any of the skills required (yet). As Jeff stated this would require a community effort to be successful.


That WM-100 should have had cloud connectivity and a skill available at Amazon.
The WM100 does have cloud connectivity the developer just isn't making use of it the way it should be.
A server doesn't need to be in the cloud to be successful. True, these are much more powerful Computers then you or I have (in most cases) However I have had several servers running over the last few years handling my own personal automation.

As for an Alexa skill anyone can create one in a few hours if they know how to talk to the WM100. Well over half of then skills are created by individuals with little or no programing skills.
My opinion is the developer is milking Authinx there is no reason a simple time issue should take months to fix nor for it to be half baked when released.

We can all sit by and wait for the developer to make this great or we can make it great.
There is no guaranty the developer won't beat us to the finish line, after all they have a head start. ::) :'

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petera

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2018, 08:04:23 AM »

Just curious to know what price they retail for.

What exactly are X10 members using them for. Is there really a need for a 3rd party server to be involved here. Can your requirements be achieved without one. I'm guessing device creation, timers and macros and the ability to control all this remotely.

Does it perform any other functions outside of the above.

I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.

If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.

To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.

Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2018, 08:39:12 AM »


I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.

If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.

To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.

Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
Currently the WM100 is extremely limited as far as automation is concerned we are being held back by the developer.
Currently the WM100 is not much more then a simple timer controller that you can access with your phone.

The hardware is far superior to any X10 controller currently available. True you can do anything this can do with a SBC and another old x10 interface. However if you had issues with PLC this unit blasts a much stronger signal.
The memory on board is far greater then the cm15 though currently not even being scratched as far as usefulness.
It is possible to have this device talk to other wi-fi connected hubs or devices, so conceivably this is simular (or could be) to my Pi imbedded CM15 (without the RF)

 
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petera

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2018, 09:05:52 AM »


I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.

If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.

To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.

Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
Currently the WM100 is extremely limited as far as automation is concerned we are being held back by the developer.
Currently the WM100 is not much more then a simple timer controller that you can access with your phone.

The hardware is far superior to any X10 controller currently available. True you can do anything this can do with a SBC and another old x10 interface. However if you had issues with PLC this unit blasts a much stronger signal.
The memory on board is far greater then the cm15 though currently not even being scratched as far as usefulness.
It is possible to have this device talk to other wi-fi connected hubs or devices, so conceivably this is simular (or could be) to my Pi imbedded CM15 (without the RF)

I don't see any potential manufacturer investing time and resources into developing an alternative new generation X10 controller so I imagine an organic solution from within the X10 community will be the solution. I imagine as appliances and controllers are going off line they are not being replaced by their owners.

If the WM100 producer liaised a little more with its user base directly via forums like this they may actually get a clearer picture of what users require from their product.

Personally I would have no use for the WM100 (319mhz) but I do have a TIP10RF (425mhz) an Ethernet based solution with an Apple/Android client sitting on the desk unplugged. The reason being is that the CM11/CM15 will do all it can and more via the Raspberry Pi and the relevant home automation software.

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Tuicemen

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2018, 09:19:16 AM »


If the WM100 producer liaised a little more with its user base directly via forums like this they may actually get a clearer picture of what users require from their product.
From my communications with different people at Authinx I believe they all understand what users are looking for in a controller.
They are all frustrated with the developers slow progress on the software.
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dhouston

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2018, 09:29:13 AM »

Personally I would have no use for the WM100 (319mhz) but I do have a TIP10RF (425mhz)

The WM100 is WiFi-to-PLC - there's no 310MHz (nor your mistaken 319mhz) involved.
The TIP10RF is WiFi-to-434MHz RF and needs an RF-to-PLC transceiver.
The major advantage of the WM100 is the strength of its PLC which is about 30Vpp or about 10x the legal limit in Europe (there is no limit on PLC in the US). Aside from Jeff Volp's XTB products there are no other PLC transmitters with PLC levels greater than 10Vpp. Higher PLC levels are needed to cope with the multitude of noise makers and signal suckers in use today. X10 seems to be disappearing in Europe - probably because of the limits on PLC level.
Given that Jeff is retiring his XTB products the WM100 becomes even more attractive. It would be nice if its inherent but unused capabilities were available.
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Knightrider

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2018, 09:30:37 AM »

My system has expanded beyond the mini timer. Still have one with the slider bar and buttons.

My system was functional with AHP, but the hardware and lack of support to modern computing devices, has left it less than optimal.

Maybe Jeff is right. I probably need Stargate or Ocelot.  What I don't need is a third party web server determining when I can use my WM100. I've reported 2 outages in the last 7 days which are frustrating.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2018, 10:19:37 AM »

My opinion is the developer is milking Authinx there is no reason a simple time issue should take months to fix nor for it to be half baked when released.

I totally agree here!  In the early stages of XTB product release I tried to deal with any problems ASAP.  In one case I even purchased a RCS X10 thermostat to track down a subtle problem:

XTB-523 V1.03 - Extended digital input sampling to accommodate delayed input from RCS thermostats 01/01/14

I find it incredible that after years of development the WM100 is just a fancy timer that can be accessed remotely.

Tuicemen is right about a project like this being a community effort.  I don't think any of us have the skills to undertake the entire project.  A product is the sum of its parts.  Many of us have expertise in specialized areas that would be needed.  But we would need a schematic of the unit first to understand the hardware well enough so we can develop firmware to run it.  I see this as a project to help Authinx bring the WM100 to its full capability.

Jeff
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JeffVolp

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2018, 10:42:22 AM »

Given that Jeff is retiring his XTB products the WM100 becomes even more attractive.

I just bit the bullet on one final order of the XTB-III PCB, which is used for both versions of the XTB-IIR+ that can pump out over 35V into a 5 ohm load on both phases.

The WM100 delivered 30Vpp totally unloaded, 21Vpp with a Maxi Controller plugged into the same output, and 15Vpp with a 5 ohm load (4.7uF in series with 4.7 ohm carbon composition resistor).  The Maxi Controller didn't even deliver 5Vpp into that 5 ohm load.

Jeff
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HA Dave

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2018, 11:42:48 AM »

Maybe Jeff is right. I probably need Stargate or Ocelot.  What I don't need is a third party web server determining when I can use my WM100.

But how on Earth could that possibly be avoided? Is there an electrical grid, phone system, or... even this very forum that is NOT completely dependent on Internet servers?!?!?

And before we get into the long-beard, old-man spiel about what used-to-could.... no one lives in the past. We can't build a set-up on what was. We only have what is. And that applies to a lot more than just home automation. Fortunately.... what is.. is better than was even imaginable just mere months ago. I will not go back to a space-commander (Zenith) clicker.... and I will not retreat to push-button remote control of a few dimmable lights.

It's true. Computers, real Artificial Intelligence, cloud connectivity and cloud management are all recent developments that has occurred WAY past my formative years. But even an old geezer like myself can grow and adapt. And if I can.... why can't everyone else here. The cloud has so very much to offer home automation. How can people turn their backs on this? 
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JeffVolp

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2018, 12:22:49 PM »

Is there an electrical grid, phone system, or... even this very forum that is NOT completely dependent on Internet servers?!?!?
...
The cloud has so very much to offer home automation. How can people turn their backs on this?

Easy...  All I need is electricity for my house to be fully automated.  If there is no electricity, there isn't much need for automation either.

Tuicemen helped me set up Alexa for X10 control.  It was pretty neat, but I found that we didn't really use it other than to demonstrate its capability to others.  Palmpads are more convenient and faster.  And they can trigger complex macros that run on the Ocelot without any support from "The Cloud".

Jeff
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Knightrider

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Re: Is it out again?
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2018, 02:31:22 PM »

My home network is way more consistent than my internet. My camera system works independent of the net, shouldn't my x10 do the same?

I'm very rural and used dialup to feed 3 PCs until fairly recently. Maybe if I had a cable net connection, I'd feel differently.

This last deluge to hit southern Ohio has wiped out my dish, OTA TV, and my internet sporadically. Cell reception here isn't great. The less dependent on these "utilities" I am, the better.

When I first moved here, the electric feeders weren't that great,  and I could never keep the clock on my VCR set.

My CM15a, and to a lesser extent my Radio Shack x10 timer, kept everything functional due to battery backup.

I'd still use the timer, but its limited to 8 sequential channels on the same HC.

There are 12 UCHCs in my living room alone. 11 have multiple timers.

I've got cm15s functioning on win10 and some patches,  but lifejacket uses a dotnet I can't run on xp.  It's a bandaid.

I just want something that isn't a step backwards from what I had 10 years ago. To me, the cloud/Willie 100 is that, but it doesn't have to be. There's potential,  but its locked away. Give us the keys -- not crumbs.

I rarely keep any computer in a constant on state, but now use 7 droid based units 24/7.

A webpage interface should have been a higher priority than a dedicated app IMHO. This would allow more devices to access the system. This proprietary app will become obsolete on my older devices. A web interface can also be accessed without accessing the internet. I have a substantial intranet infrastructure.  I have cams aimed at the neighbors homes, and they can access those by logging into one of my wifi systems.

We've been wishing since December of 2013, and have very little more than 4 of my ca. 1986 timers duct tape to palmpads.
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