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Author Topic: AHP/CM15A Opinion?  (Read 445 times)

Tuicemen

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AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« on: September 16, 2018, 05:13:55 PM »

 AHP is Dead! :(
Despite others & my attempts to revive this, extending its life utilizing AHP Lifejacket and playing with recovered code snippets this software is in my opinion, Dead!  :(
There is no way to update, Authinx lost all servers related to it as well as decent salvageable software code. :(
We thought the WM100 and created apps would replace this  but that has failed to materialize. :(
Despite the CM15A reputation of having poor RF, my CM15As continue to perform well (yes I have more then one in operation) however it has been ages since using AHP.
I first moved to third party software which others created as well as my own (Windows Based) then on to a PI and Linux software. I've yet to commit to a specific Pi HA software and there are a number of them, some more actively being developed then others.

With talk of a WM100 pro module I thought about a CM15 with an imbedded PI board which I manged to do with a PI Zero W board.
Authinx appeared interested in this at first & even supplied a working CM15A for me to experiment with. :)%
But is there really any interest in an improved CM15 with an embedded SBC like a PI?

And what about a Linux version of AHP? All the other software options have other protocols coded in or the ability to add in with a plugin.
AHP and the CM15 were ahead of their time sadly it didn't stay that way :(

I love my X10 Setup and wouldn't swap it for anything, though I have tried other protocols in the past and still have some in operation. These are mainly because X0 doesn't offer something comparable.
Should we be asking Authinx for an updated CM15 (more powerful) with a SBC embedded?
If so should it come preconfigured with X10 created software or allow users to choose their preferred Linux based software. ::) :'

The Authinx owner has always stated they wish to create things for the average X10 user first and expand to the power users later.
 My main question is who is the average X10 user? :o
it certainly isn't me! ::) :'
Is it someone happy with a glorified remote? After all that is all the WM100 is  right now using a smartphone.

Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated. :-[ :(
>!

« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 06:20:24 PM by Tuicemen »
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JeffVolp

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 07:34:14 PM »

Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated.

I share your frustration with the WM100.  After 3 years of development I certainly expected more.  And it has taken months to have just the most obvious bugs addressed.  I can't believe a developer like that could still be in business.

Jeff
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SkipWX10

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 08:32:00 PM »

I agree that the WM100 is just a glorified remote receiver and the software makes my phone a glorified remote. Once I got over the 'newness' factor, I hardly use it anymore. Since I can't trust the time sync or server reliability, it will never replace my CM15a (or even have any timed events on it actually)

I LOVE my CM15a setup, although I am not even close to a power user. It basically runs lights and there are a few macros that I use intermittently. I have my downloaded software (from ??, somewhere in Europe IIRC) that I now run on a Win8 computer running classic shell, so the GUI is still the same as the XP machine it used to run on, and a city list xml I got from somewhere else in 2008...

Would I love to have a pure, new software load and updates on a regular basis....sure. Would I love to have a new CM15a with more power and great reliability, along with WiFi capabilities, etc....sure.  Am I going to jump ship to another protocol any time soon....no.
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Knightrider

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 09:18:23 PM »

Bite the bullet and buy the code for the willie. Either that, or dump it.

We dont need a pro unit on the WM100,  but if you could come up with an RF unit that works in unison with the WM, I'd drop money on it. The caveat would be I'd demand a single app to run them both.

If you could then go to phase three and make units with sensors (temp, lux, humidity, etc) we'd be back on track.

Buy the damned code and give it to a developer in North America that actually uses this stuff. Better yet, give us an SDK so us hobbyists who care more about it than the pros can make this work the way it should.

I have a few android apps under my belt, they're not hateful to write.
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Remote control is cool,

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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 09:40:35 PM »


The Authinx owner has always stated they wish to create things for the average X10 user first and expand to the power users later.
 My main question is who is the average X10 user? :o
it certainly isn't me!

Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated. :-[ :(
>!

I think most of us here share in this frustration. And I'd guess that none of us are "average" X10 users.

av·er·age
noun
A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.


From the many thousands of posts on these forums (and I've read almost everyone of them)…. I would bet a pay check (if I still got those) that most current X10 users have a setup that solved a particular problem. Some I can remember off the top of my head are:

Holiday lights X10 turns them On and Off saving power and giving the illusion of the residents being home. I'd guess that most of us also use X10 that way too.

The light switch is downstairs... so a simple X10 transceiver allows for a light downstairs that can be turned off from the bedroom upstairs.

A similar problem/fix is the patio light downstairs... yet the bedroom window is upstairs above the patio. (Again X10 controlled lights downstairs and a remote up).

Few people build elaborate set-ups... IMHO. I know I sorta got addicted to automation and have tried to make my home as smart as I can. I have NO PROBLEM... incorporating any brand/flavor/type/method or product into my smart home (I even have a clapper somewhere). I currently use two CM15A's.... one serves as just a interface for my Homeseer Hometroller. The other holds 3 (I think) macros... and runs free-standing (with no PC connection). I also use 2 other hubs (with cloud based solutions) and 3 Amazon Echo devices. Along with numerous automation apps on my iphone.

I'd just guess (again IMHO) that anyone that searched the internet... and tolerated the old X10's, pop-up and soft-porn ads.... has noticed the recent proliferation of Home Automation products as well as the Alexa and Google devices. And... with about 1 out of every 4 American households owning one of the digitial assistances I'd guess that the "average" X10 user has one too.

I've made it clear (repeatedly) that AI devices are where the home automation market is. I believe that to be indisputable... no matter what the power users here at the forum worry about as far as goggle/AI/listening/etc. I do NOT believe most people (average X10 user, people) worry about such things. If they did... there would not be so many millions of Alexa/google/siri units out there. And those users ARE THERE.

X10 needs to stop looking for the big meal.... and grab a quick snack instead. Hire a code writer (X10's OWN code writer) to work with Samsung... so the CM19A works with the Samsung $69 hub (it has a usb port)... and get a Amazon skill. BOOM. X10 would be back playing with the new guys (and the old big boys)... and for very little cash and almost no time invested.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 09:46:18 PM by HA Dave »
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Brian H

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 06:04:19 AM »

I abandoned the CM15A and AHP years ago. Along with the loud CLUNK of the appliance modules and on/off switches. To me it does look like the CM15 and AHP are not being updated or new support is on the way. Dead or getting close to it.

I am now using a UDI ISY994i Insteon controller and Insteon modules. Luckily mine are early enough hardware to officially support an X10 address programmed in to it. As my HR12A still can control them as there is no 16 button Insteon equivalent.
It can also send X10 commands so I can sound the chimes modules.

Still have things like chime modules, Powerflash and XTB-IIR in use. The XTB-IIR is great as it is the only repeater I have seen that respects Insteon and does not garbage the power line signal.

I doubt I am an average user these days. More like a glorified light schedule.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 06:32:03 AM by Brian H »
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 09:24:06 AM »

Simply put there's the X10 user and the Home Automation user who has integrated X10 into their overall setup.

I utilise the equivalent CM11 and CM15 to control X10 devices and these units are connected directly to a Raspberry Pi and are integrated into an overall Home Automation system (many platforms to choose from).

The above setup negates the need for AHP so that rules me out from that category. To be honest, I imagine the migration of AHP to the Linux platform would be more trouble than it was worth.

I do accept that combination of the CM15 or CM11 and AHP allows those units to be used as standalones with macros and timers but the SBC in conjunction with the relevant home automation software and either of these X10 controllers gives you the same facilities and more.

For the pure X10 user, I imagine leaving things as they are with AHP has a big appeal until it works no longer. You could switch to Heyu or Mochad on the Raspberry Pi gradually over time and then utilise on of the many Home Automation platforms and integrate with your X10 setup.

Talking to a plastic disc with blue flashing lights in the hope that it might carry out the commands that you have already programmed into it somewhere along the way is hardly rocket science. It's far from what some people might term AI either.

We have facial recognition running on the Raspberry Pi in Home Assistant using OpenCV that will turn on the X10 controlled lights in the house once the face of the person entering is recognised. Not quite AI either but one example of where old technology meets new.
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 10:08:55 AM »

…… I doubt I am an average user these days. More like a glorified light schedule.

Thank you Brian H. Far too often.... I feel alone in the realization that Home Automation has progressed far beyond "lighting control". If we old-timers continue to force our outdated paradigms onto the X10 business model.... we'll force X10 into memory.... only. Heaping hate... on to the new devices that are central to modern Home Automation.... does NOT serve X10 or ourselves.

Until that day comes.... when I can no-longer flip a switch to turn a light on.... X10 is merely a minor convenience. But getting AI information like:  Has the rain stopped for today? Or what's on TV tonight? Or just get a quick news brief, math solution, timer set, or calendar entry made.... saves lots of time and makes my busy life easier. Yeah... and hollering over my shoulder for Alexa to turn my (X10) lights off (just in case I forgot)…. that's really nice too. And... other than controlling X10 lights via voice and AI... the rest are the typical, average, ways people use automation today.

I believe, average X10 users... are (ALSO) converting over to easier to control protocols so they can better integrate their automation. 
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Tuicemen

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 10:42:11 AM »

My X10 setup has always been more devices then lights. Maybe I was ahead of my time ::) :'
Even now since scaling back my HA setup in the city and ramping it up at the off grid place I only have a total of 8 x10 controlled lights the rest are devices (pumps & fans mostly)
I only use one house code at the off grid place and 3 at the city place but even with 4 house codes in use I don't have more then 20 devices controlled by X10.
I do run X10 security  and a x10 IP camera or two at both places with some scheduling attached to those so maybe I'm  a glorified device scheduler.
I know I'm nowhere near a "Power user", however Authinx seems to think so as I keep being reminded:  the WM100 was not intended for Power users >*<  ::) :'
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 11:02:00 AM »

I'm a little confused when you say.....I can no longer flip a switch to turn a light on. Just remove the switch and replace it with a sensor. You have prescence detection and geo location which will do all that for you and all triggered with X10.

X10 is just one element of a bigger picture called Home Automation. I have a Raspberry Pi turning on lights and other appliances, all X10 related,when cloud cover is 60%, precipitation is over 3mm/hr, wind speed is high. No AI involved here. All sensor based.

The TV situation is dealt with on the same Pi running Plexus or Kodi. Alexa is done to death so there's plenty of solutions there. None of the above is AI. It's simply using the if this then that concept on the Raspberry Pi and scripting it accordingly. Again X10 works perfectly in this environment and is just one element of the Home Automation family.

Someone dumps a hub onto the market in the hope of making a killing. As there's little or no chance of making aftermarket earnings these hubs disappear quickly. One of the longest serving out there, Vera are finding their user base are jumping ship. HomeSeer, another long time player in the market are struggling to come up with new innovations which will attract additional revenues, hence the expensive first time purchase price.

We are a long way away from an AI solution but in the meantime there is some very impressive DIY Home Automation solutions out there that will comfortably embrace X10.

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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 12:15:40 PM »

I'm a little confused when you say.....I can no longer flip a switch to turn a light on. Just remove the switch and replace it with a sensor.

One of the many uses for X10... has traditionally been for those with mobility issues. Many people can't simply walk over to a switch and flip it on (or trigger a sensor with movement).

I was an early adopter (more than a decade ago) of the BVC (X10 voice command) software. BVC had been designed with certain disabilities in mind. I know many people experienced great security and freedom via the BVC software. I merely suffer from being chronically lazy.  ;)

I know YOU (and some others) have tried to divide this up as the Alexa users vs the X10 old-timers.... (or something so silly).

This thread isn't about YOUR likes or MINE. It is about average X10 users. You can hate all you want on modern assaults to your pre-conceived paradigms.... but that in no way affects the math. These modern AI devices have sold MILLIONS. That's all that matters.... that is where the customers are. It really doesn't take a sharp pencil to calculate where the average user is. It is sadly disappointing that X10 has moved too slowly to profit from this current Home Automation explosion.

…….. We are a long way away from an AI solution ...

You got a mouse in your pocket? Who the hell is the WE? Me and 39 million other Americans are well into our AI solution (and enjoying it). Your perspective is emotional (we all understand... we all have emotions). But X10 needs customers... and the customers want AI.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 12:35:54 PM by HA Dave »
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 01:26:53 PM »

I don't think you are actually reading my posts correctly. Dividing X10 old time users (of which I am one) and Alexa users. I don't think so. Emotion and logic are no relations either.

This is just about using basic logic when approaching a problem and designing a solution. There's no AI involved here. if you think Alexa is an example of AI well so be it. Good luck to Alexa. I have one and it's an amusing toy until it starts playing up and I certainly wouldn't entrust my home automation setup to it.

X10 will not be going in the Alexa direction any time soon but it will probably survive creating useful controllers and letting its user base create the rest. Personally I couldn't care less who uses what as long as it works for them. I have outlined what works for me and whatever works for you go for it but X10 ain't going AI anytime soon either so lets stick with discussing realistically what direction it could go in.

Ps. Why do you feel it necessary to bold type in black and red enlarged text when making your points. It doesn't really make them any more valid.
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brobin

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 02:55:27 PM »

I don't view Alexa as AI.  It responds to commands & queries and has access to a lot of resources, but that's not AI - at least to me.  Alexa can remind me about an appointment at a specific time but it won't, of its own volition, remind me early if there's a traffic delay along the route, suggest alternate routing and that I take an umbrella as rain is predicted and, oh yes, since you'll be passing a Costco, pick up a rotisserie chicken for dinner!  I do enjoy Alexa for what it is and maybe AI is in its future but for now it mostly just saves me the arduous task of pushing buttons.

As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 02:57:02 PM by brobin »
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 03:17:55 PM »

@brobin the funny thing is that it could remind you to bring a brolly and warn you of traffic issues and the best place to grab a coffee and it still wouldn't be an AI device. All program logic that can be predefined and hard coded into the device.

It's just a device to encourage Amazon customers onto their platform as with Google Home.

Domotics is a completely different beast and exploits the likes of Alexa and Google Home via the BWS Bridge. Once again not AI. Domotics will have to come a long way before it could be termed AI and that certainly won't be in its current format.

Maybe when they start implanting chips with built in neural networks into the human body which learn from our daily routines and replicate them when necessary around the household could we even discuss AI compatability.
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brobin

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 04:14:47 PM »

Here's a pretty interesting & comprehensive look at what AI is and could be from ZDnet: https://goo.gl/V22dCa
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