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Author Topic: AHP/CM15A Opinion?  (Read 657 times)

dave w

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 06:33:46 PM »

As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.
FWIW
This is what I have thought for a long time that Alexa (and likely all A.I.) is not in heavy use for HA. It was personally confirmed after I tried setting up a couple of the new Alexa "Routines",  and also trying to link Alexa to our Bryant HVAC and running into problems on both ends.

Emails to Amazon/Alexa tech support has confirmed (to me) that HA is not their strong point. My responses from tech support were very generalized, boiler plate script, not addressing my specifics.  However, I think if you were to ask how to get Alexa to give you a traffic report for your neighborhood, I think the answers are more to the point. 

Last Christmas the local Best Buy had an entire wall filled with WiFi and Z-Wave lighting and appliance control, cameras, door locks, home security, etc.  with displays of Amazon Echo's and Google Assistant's a few steps away. That same area is now filled with flat panel TVs and games. All the home stuff has been scaled down and moved into a corner.

Would be interesting to see what Authinx yearly sales are.
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2018, 08:58:05 PM »

I don't view Alexa as AI.

Great. Are you in charge of deciding what AI is? The rest of the world seems to missing your opinion. And just for info... I've had employees that also did nothing...  of their own volition. Yet they were of actual real intelligence... which is even better(?) than Amazons "Artificial" (programmed) kind.

ar·ti·fi·cial in·tel·li·gence
noun
noun: artificial intelligence; noun: AI
the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

 
As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.

Is that what that chart indicates? Or does it represent that 9% of the commands/requests to Aleax are for lighting? Which could mean that lighting/automation users could be 75% of Alexa users. And even if that 9% was the total number of HA users also using Alexa.... that would be 3,510,000 potentual X10 customers. math solution provided by Alexa
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:14:17 PM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2018, 09:18:38 PM »

…...what I have thought for a long time that Alexa (and likely all A.I.) is not in heavy use for HA. It was personally confirmed after I tried setting up a couple of the new Alexa "Routines"......Emails to Amazon/Alexa tech support has confirmed (to me) that HA is not their strong point. …..

AND..... judging by my call to iRobot tech support today... finding good knowledgeable phone service personal isn't an easy trick now-a-days.
I understand. I am sure... that like most hobby's......coin collecting, stamp collecting, etc. HA will NEVER be a huge market. But I am convinced we are certainly in a golden era of products and popularity. 

Last Christmas the local Best Buy had an entire wall filled with WiFi and Z-Wave lighting and appliance control, cameras, door locks, home security, etc.  with displays of Amazon Echo's and Google Assistant's a few steps away. That same area is now filled with flatcoin collecting,  panel TVs and games. All the home stuff has been scaled down and moved into a corner.

And apparently.... swim suits and knit golf shirts will never be worn again either.... as the mens store I frequent has replaced that display with cotton sweaters. OR... maybe... some displays utilize seasonal demands. Expect to see more HA stuff around Christmas and fathers day. Right now... football season demands TV sales.   
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2018, 09:37:45 PM »

Looking over that chart provided by brobin certainly does look like a prefect example of the state of Home Automation in America today. This is new and GOOD stuff. Certainly... the chart does NOT imply that that 2% of the people who own Amazon AI devices ONLY use them to get sports results. It obviously means that 2% of the uses requests/commands... are for sports scores.

So the 9% of lighting request (11% if you count thermostats) and much more if you count streaming... as music and even movies has been a big part of HA for years now. I know Bill (of BVC) had tons of requests for play lists to be added to BVC.

So... now if we take a serious look at what millions and millions of people are using Alexa for.... we should have solid data as to what modern HA users are looking for. THIS is data that X10 could use to find where/who their average customers are... and sell them product. Which BTW is what this thread is about.... NOT how to hate Amazon... or the natural direction that technology is taking.

I made the chart a bit more laptop/phone friendly:

 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 09:55:21 PM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2018, 10:24:51 PM »

I am NOT promoting Amazon... and I am NOT over-looking the market of Raspberry Pi's either. There has been about 14 million of the Pi devices sold and X10 automation IS one of the Pi hobbies most popular uses of the devices.

X10 SHOULD pin-down that market. I'd like to see an X10 Pi device. But I don't care to take up a new programming hobby myself. I like my Homeseer Hometroller. It is a Pi device and works great... without me taking a class of Linux.

This is NOT about them & us. This should be about finding products that average X10 users want to buy. 
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brobin

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2018, 08:30:18 AM »

This should be about finding products that average X10 users want to buy.  [/b]

Agreed.
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2018, 09:59:39 AM »

On reflection, the fiasco with the WM100 and all it's woes definitely points X10 in the direction of the DIY market. While a number of commercially available products like the HomeSeer Hometroller do facilitate the use of X10 it is not officially supported and it's support is provided at the mercy of a volunteer from the HomeSeer community forum. Hardly a viable option if you are purchasing a Hometroller for X10 use and run into a problem that the volunteer is either unable or unwilling to resolve.

I think the future of X10 lies in the hands of the X10 community. Possibly reworking old concepts like the CM11/CM15 or following on from previous discussions modifying the WM100 to make it fit for purpose.

Again alternatives have been put forward from the likes of Tuicemen etc but as it involves an alien OS it appears that this would be a mountain many would not be willing to climb. At least these alternatives have been offered so it appears that for the moment it is up to Authinx via the Chinese developer/manufacturer to come up with the X10 goods unless there's an option that has not yet been put on the table.
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HA Dave

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2018, 01:14:41 PM »

On reflection, the fiasco with the WM100 and all it's woes definitely points X10 in the direction of the DIY market. ...…

I think the future of X10 lies in the hands of the X10 community.

DIY's, Jeff Volp, and the forums has for many years (previous to myself) been very good for X10. But things always change.... and things HAVE changed. Change #1 was X10 closing their doors (and losing AHP/smarthome functions). Change #2 has been the more recent paradigm shift in the Home Automation market place. 

So whereas the competition has been kicking ass, selling billions of dollars (with a "B") of product.... X10 has taken a step backwards. I think "going DIY" would be a 2nd step back.... and away from remaining marketable. Although I wouldn't recommend X10 turn their backs on the possibly large PI/DIY market.

I think a simple easy to make or adapt product like a new flash-drive sized firecracker/CM19A.... might satisfy BOTH the DIY market. The drivers for such a device, could range from MS, Raspbian, Android, Apple …. and even the Samsung Hub ($69). Which... with the Alexa skill..... would make any X10 user modern and up-to-date (as-well-as expansible). And such a USB device in a Pi and a bit of programing....  could provide some DIY uniqueness. OR... X10 could even bring a programmer in-house to create software in Raspbian... to better serve the Pi market.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 01:23:15 PM by HA Dave »
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Tuicemen

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2018, 02:10:15 PM »

With the me bricking a WM100 during a test update I've been tearing it down and looking at the Wi-Fi daughter board in a bit more detail.
This has 7 pins on it to connect to the main board to are for LED colour light changes and one for the connection\sync button which leaves 4, that is all a USB connector uses. Two of those are for power + and ground if the Daughter board was to be converted into a USB dongle it could easily be plugged into an existing  CM15  Provided the cm15 USB does have the power pin live.

Of coarse I would want the PLC power of the WM100 with the options the CM15 allows so the Cm15 would need an update.
 -:) A updated CM15 could still work with the old AHP software for those that wished it & would also allow users a powerful controller for DIY projects.
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 03:05:32 PM »



Of coarse I would want the PLC power of the WM100 with the options the CM15 allows so the Cm15 would need an update.
 -:) A updated CM15 could still work with the old AHP software for those that wished it & would also allow users a powerful controller for DIY projects.

And therein lies the future of X10 for users who wish to plug away with AHP. DIY and mods. Outside of Authinx I doubt there's any potential manufacturers lining up to produce X10 controllers and other equipment.

For others there's the hope of a more powerful X10 controller coupled with an SBC and the X10 platform of your choice. A little work involved but the rewards are well worth it.

As for any other amazing developments X10 or otherwise I don't see them coming on stream from Authinx anytime soon. Maybe a few firmware updates to the WM100 and that's probably about it.
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Tuicemen

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2018, 03:08:23 PM »

Actually there are other items in the works, though they are on the back burner simmering so to speak. rofl
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petera

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2018, 03:19:49 PM »

Actually there are other items in the works, though they are on the back burner simmering so to speak. rofl

Hopefully someone adds some fuel or the burner will go out. Such a shame they don't give users a chance to commentate and give opinion on these concepts. Might save them a lot of trouble in the long run.
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JeffVolp

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2018, 03:46:37 PM »

This has 7 pins on it to connect to the main board to are for LED colour light changes and one for the connection\sync button which leaves 4, that is all a USB connector uses. Two of those are for power + and ground if the Daughter board was to be converted into a USB dongle it could easily be plugged into an existing  CM15  Provided the cm15 USB does have the power pin live.

Mine has 8 pins labeled:

232IN
PLC_BUSY
232OUT
KEY
LED_Y
LED_B
3V3
GND

So it is clear that all the X10 functions are handled in a different device.  It appears the 60Hz zero crossing detector runs to the 14-pin chip underneath the power supply, so that is my guess for the X10 controller.

Since the actual X10 communication is being performed by the motherboard, I doubt that it would be possible to support extended commands even with a firmware update.

Jeff
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 04:14:26 PM by JeffVolp »
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dave w

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2018, 05:19:04 PM »

AND..... judging by my call to iRobot tech support today...
Yeah, I've dealt with them also. If your Roomba cleans in the random fashion, take a look at the Neato. Even the early models map the room using a IR scanning laser and vacuums in straight lines. But if you have carpets that shows tracks, stick with the Roomba.

Anywho, don't get offended just because I don't think AI and HA are as closely connected as I thought they would be.
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Knightrider

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Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2018, 07:36:53 PM »

I'd say it's time for X10 to cut all ties with the manufacturer.  I hope they own the designs. Otherwise, we better dig out some old ACT A10 schematics.
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Remote control is cool,

but automation rules!
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