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Author Topic: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.  (Read 1340 times)

JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2018, 11:13:59 AM »

A $5 WeMos D1 Mini is all that's needed for a WiFi-to-Serial adapter. It also has a built-in USB-to-Serial adapter. There are numerous stackable shields that add other functionality (e.g. RTC). All that's currently lacking is an EEPROM shield should one want to support timers & macros.

With a total re-layout and using squat larger diameter electrolytics it might be possible to provide enough "air rights" for the 34mm x 26mm WeMos daughter board.  But I would be concerned about power dissipation in the small sealed package.  And it might be difficult to provide the 500mA peak at 3.3V that I read about in the FAQ:

Therefore, your design must provide for a voltage regulator that can provide 500 mA without suffering a drop in the output voltage which is outside the operating specifications.

Jeff
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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2018, 11:31:45 AM »

I wouldn't do it internally. It's simpler to leave it as an external device powered by a 5V supply, especially if one wants to add shields. It could work with the XTB-232, CM11A and other serial devices.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2018, 11:37:20 AM »

All that's currently lacking is an EEPROM shield should one want to support timers & macros.

The fact that this RTC can accept a microSD should solve the data storage problem:

https://robotdyn.com/wifi-d1-mini-data-logger-shield-rtc-ds1307-with-battery-microsd.html

Jeff
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 04:37:29 PM by JeffVolp »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2018, 11:46:23 AM »

I wouldn't do it internally. It's simpler to leave it as an external device powered by a 5V supply, especially if one wants to add shields. It could work with the XTB-232, CM11A and other serial devices.

Multi-package with an external supply is a kludge, and may be something of interest only to hobbyists.  I thought we were addressing a device similar to the WM100, but with a controller that supports extended commands, external triggers, and conditional macros.  Essentially, it would address all the limitations that the WM100 has.

Jeff
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Tuicemen

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2018, 12:00:11 PM »

Actually an external device that plugged into a controller is what I suggested to Authinx as a WM-Pro.
 It would keep costs down, I suggested it have a Male USB data port so it could plug directly into an existing CM15 or a upgraded one with stronger PLC and RF.
It could be made to use an external power supply or (if the controller had power on the connecting port) be powered from the controller port
I don't believe the existing CM15a has power on the USB port.
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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2018, 12:12:03 PM »

The fact that this can RTC accept a microSD should solve the data storage problem:
Yes and no. I was aware of the SD card shield but they use flash which has a rather limited number of erase/write cycles whereas EEPROM allows for many, many more. That's probably why the WM100 uses EEPROM. Of course you could just replace the SD card when necessary. And, I really have little experience with this - I don't know how frequently timers/macros get modified.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 12:30:09 PM by dhouston »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2018, 01:51:59 PM »

I just did a sim and some bench testing.  The XTB-232 transformer can provide 500mA with a low-dropout 3.3V regulator and schottky rectifiers.  Dissipation at that max load is about 4W spread among the transformer, rectifiers, regulator, and daughter board.  From what I read 500mA is the peak demand, and the average load is more like 100mA, which is easily accommodated.

But it sounds like this isn't anything worth pursuing further.

Jeff
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JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2018, 02:02:23 PM »

I don't know how frequently timers/macros get modified.

I would expect that only during a download.  So it could be dozens of times during program development, but after that only when changes are needed.  Perhaps 100 to 1000 cycles?

In addition to the downloaded program, it might be a good idea to store a map of the system like AHP does  But that would only have to be updated when it is cleared or a new device is recognized.  I don't think device status must be stored in non-volatile memory as system configuration is lost during a power interruption anyway.  Part of any program initialization should be establishing the correct configuration for that time of day when power is restored.

Jeff
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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2018, 02:08:17 PM »

I just did a sim and some bench testing.  The XTB-232 transformer can provide 500mA with a low-dropout 3.3V regulator and schottky rectifiers.  Dissipation at that max load is about 4W spread among the transformer, rectifiers, regulator, and daughter board.  From what I read 500mA is the peak demand, and the average load is more like 100mA, which is easily accommodated.
I suspect the ESP8266 only reaches the peak when sending WiFi which will be rather minimal in this application. How often does the XTB-232 (or a CM11A) send serial data?

Quote
But it sounds like this isn't anything worth pursuing further.
I was under the impression that you were planning to discontinue the XTB line and fully retire. If you are now planning an XTB-ESP, it should also include EEPROM and RTC.
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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2018, 02:12:47 PM »

I don't know how frequently timers/macros get modified.

I would expect that only during a download.  So it could be dozens of times during program development, but after that only when changes are needed.  Perhaps 100 to 1000 cycles?
If that's the case, the ESP8266 flash memory might be adequate. The D1 Mini Pro has 16MB and most of that will likely be free.
Or, if physical size is crucial something like this (with 4MB flash) might work.
https://github.com/SmartArduino/SZDOITWiKi/wiki/ESP8266---ESP-F
or the one used in the WM100 with 4MB.
https://www.gridconnect.com/products/esp-wroom-02-wifi-802-11-module
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 02:55:35 PM by dhouston »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2018, 02:19:42 PM »

I suspect the ESP8266 only reaches the peak when sending WiFi which will be rather minimal in this application. How often does the XTB-232 (or a CM11A) send serial data?

The XTB-232 and CM11A send serial data in response to any X10 commands being received over the powerline.  And obviously, there is communication whenever the controller wants to issue an X10 command.  Then there is the one second heartbeat when the controller is not responding.

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I was under the impression that you were planning to discontinue the XTB line and fully retire. If you are now planning an XTB-ESP, it should also include EEPROM and RTC.

I want to get away from the kitting and assembly.  But I'm still willing to do design and prototype work if someone else (like Authinx) is interested in taking over the production.

Jeff

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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2018, 02:31:58 PM »

4 years ago when I tried to play matchmaker between Marmitek (TIP10RF) and Authinx, the latter didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my email so I suspect that's a dead-end street.
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petera

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2018, 07:47:34 PM »

4 years ago when I tried to play matchmaker between Marmitek (TIP10RF) and Authinx, the latter didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my email so I suspect that's a dead-end street.

Being a TIP10RF user what had you got in mind. A 310mhz version I assume. If that's the case I imagine that could have been fairly straightforward with all the hardwork done already.
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dhouston

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2018, 09:10:19 PM »

Being a TIP10RF user what had you got in mind. A 310mhz version I assume. If that's the case I imagine that could have been fairly straightforward with all the hardwork done already.
All it required was a 310MHz SAW Resonator in place of the 433.92MHz one - nothing could be simpler.
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petera

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Re: Looking for users experianced in IOT communications and more.
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2018, 09:36:18 PM »

Being a TIP10RF user what had you got in mind. A 310mhz version I assume. If that's the case I imagine that could have been fairly straightforward with all the hardwork done already.
All it required was a 310MHz SAW Resonator in place of the 433.92MHz one - nothing could be simpler.

Unbelievable. That's just said it all. Instead they decided to reinvent the wheel. Now I'm not one bit surprised they're in the position they are in now.

How difficult would it be to refactor a TIP10RF for 310mhz use. Would it be expensive to retrofit.
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