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Author Topic: A timer problem that has shown up  (Read 1963 times)

LAF

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A timer problem that has shown up
« on: October 06, 2018, 06:20:43 PM »

I have had an AHP system for several years now and it has worked very well but I have run into a problem with two timers that issue commands to appliance modules at the same time of day.  The problem is one or both don't seem to trigger or they both trigger and the commands don't get thru.  I initially had both set for 9:00 AM and solved the problem by setting one to 9:01.

Should that be necessary??  I would think the CM15 would be smart enough to issue the commands sequentially with sufficient time between them to allow the first command to complete(??).

Also, what happens if a timer issues a command and someone pushes a button on a remote control device?  Do the two commands step on one another?

Thanks for any assistance.
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JeffVolp

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 06:52:23 PM »

Also, what happens if a timer issues a command and someone pushes a button on a remote control device?  Do the two commands step on one another?

Yes, we call that a "collision", and it is likely that both commands will be lost.

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 06:58:23 PM »

I'm not an AHP expert but I think if you add the two commands in one macro they should execute sequentially.  If they're on the same Housecode you can send i.e., A1,A2,ON and both will turn on.
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 08:40:12 PM »

I'm not an AHP expert but I think if you add the two commands in one macro they should execute sequentially.  If they're on the same Housecode you can send i.e., A1,A2,ON and both will turn on.

That is correct - AHP seems able to handle that but timers that trigger at the same time, apparently not.  Pretty surprising if that's the case.
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Tuicemen

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 08:10:57 AM »

Why not add all the modules to one timer?
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 11:06:50 AM »

Why not add all the modules to one timer?

The two modules have different timing requirements.  One triggers twice per day on the hour (first is "on" at 10:00 PM, second is "off" at 9:00 AM), the other triggers every hour ("off" commands only).

I would still like to know if multiple separate triggers at the same time will work properly.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 11:18:11 AM by LAF »
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dhouston

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 11:50:24 AM »

I would still like to know if multiple separate triggers at the same time will work properly.

NO!
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 02:19:24 PM »

I would still like to know if multiple separate triggers at the same time will work properly.

NO!

That is a pretty strange shortcoming IMO.  Is such a deficiency documented anywhere (I've never seen any mention of it)?  If multiple, i.e. more than one, timers are configured to trigger at the same time of day, I wonder why AHP can't simply issue the commands sequentially?  What does it do anyhow, try to send the commands all at once or only send one of them??

Is the workaround simply to make sure no two or more timers are configured to trigger at the same time?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 03:28:54 PM by LAF »
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dave w

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 05:04:48 PM »

I have had an AHP system for several years now and it has worked very well but I have run into a problem with two timers that issue commands to appliance modules at the same time of day. 
So did this work for several years and now suddenly start suddenly start OR did you just add the second timer and that caused the problem. Does the log show the commands being sent ?
In other words I am wondering if this is actually a CM15A/AHP problem, OR is something happening in your house (noise) that is making the signals hit or miss.
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 05:32:22 PM »

I have had an AHP system for several years now and it has worked very well but I have run into a problem with two timers that issue commands to appliance modules at the same time of day. 
So did this work for several years and now suddenly start suddenly start OR did you just add the second timer and that caused the problem. Does the log show the commands being sent ?
In other words I am wondering if this is actually a CM15A/AHP problem, OR is something happening in your house (noise) that is making the signals hit or miss.

It appeared to start after I added the second timers.  I didn't have the logging turned on so don't know if commands were sent.  The fail wasn't a once-off - it failed on several separate times upon which I removed all identical trigger times (which "cured" the problem)

Now I'm not sure what is going on - I set up a test program that switched 3 modules on & off via timers set for the same time values and it worked as one would expect - the commands were sent sequentially in the order the timers were created and all commands were successful, both on and off.  However, I did have do a reset of the CM15A (unplugged and removed a battery) b/f I ran the testing so that may have accounted for the problem (I had tried to install a lamp module and had it incorrectly configured to the new type - this resulted in an endless stream of status requests or some-such which I could only shut off by resetting the CM15).

So, I have reverted my program back to the timers triggering at the same time and will see what happens. :)
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SkipWX10

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 06:23:38 PM »

I  have five light modules/switches that are all set to turn on at one hour before sunset and two sets of two each at different times off at the same time at night. This is in AHP with timers residing on my CM15a. They have operated flawlessly this way for 13 years in this house. When turning on, the light go on and then dim to set brightness in order of module number (i.e.: A1 goes on, dims, A2 goes on, dims, etc, etc) When turning off, all set to go off at the specified time go out simultaneously. What this tells me is that with dimming setup, the codes are sent individually: A1 on, A1 dim, A1 dim, A2 on, A2 dim, A2 dim, etc and that simultaneous off codes are sent in groups: A1, A2 Off.

I assume then that the ON codes you are sending are just as described and setting them one minute apart would avoid collisions
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 02:35:51 PM »

Well, this issue appears it might fall into the "wild bug" category.  My test program had no problems but reverting the second timer in my "main" program to the same trigger time as another timer resulted in the same failure.

I haven't been able to log the commands, or lack thereof, because the first timer switches on power to my computer so, the computer is not running when the timers trigger.  I guess I will have to set up a test case within the main program such that AHP is running, and logging, when the timers trigger.

 B:(

BTW, on the topic of timers, has anyone noticed that a pop-up help balloon on the advanced timer window for "Store in Interface" is backwards?  At least as I understand it.  The wiki documentation for "Repeat" also seems incorrect.

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Tuicemen

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 05:55:38 PM »

BTW, on the topic of timers, has anyone noticed that a pop-up help balloon on the advanced timer window for "Store in Interface" is backwards?  At least as I understand it.  The wiki documentation for "Repeat" also seems incorrect.
Not sure what you mean. The balloon info pop up appears when hovering over the check box if the box is checked or not. at least on my AHP copy it does.
The info balloon for repeat also displays correctly for me. maybe you AHP or AHX file has become corrupt.
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LAF

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 09:08:07 PM »

BTW, on the topic of timers, has anyone noticed that a pop-up help balloon on the advanced timer window for "Store in Interface" is backwards?  At least as I understand it.  The wiki documentation for "Repeat" also seems incorrect.
Not sure what you mean. The balloon info pop up appears when hovering over the check box if the box is checked or not. at least on my AHP copy it does.
The info balloon for repeat also displays correctly for me. maybe you AHP or AHX file has become corrupt.

Sorry, I meant the info in the Interface balloon is wrong, I think.  It says "Click to run this timer only from the computer" or maybe the caption is wrong "Store in Interface".  Anyhow, I have that check box clicked on all my timers and the timers all run with the computer turned off.

The balloon for "Repeat" is correct - it's the Wiki help description that is incorrect, I think.

One other thing I've noticed about "Repeat" is that it's grayed out for some of my timers and not others (for no reason that is apparent to me at first glance).
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Noam

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Re: A timer problem that has shown up
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2018, 09:29:36 AM »

Sorry, I meant the info in the Interface balloon is wrong, I think.  It says "Click to run this timer only from the computer" or maybe the caption is wrong "Store in Interface".  Anyhow, I have that check box clicked on all my timers and the timers all run with the computer turned off.

The balloon for "Repeat" is correct - it's the Wiki help description that is incorrect, I think.

One other thing I've noticed about "Repeat" is that it's grayed out for some of my timers and not others (for no reason that is apparent to me at first glance).

I haven't tested this myself, but if the box is checked, does the caption change? In other words, if the box is checked, is it telling you what will happen when you *uncheck* it?
"Store in Interface" works just fine for me.

As for the "Repeat" option, I know I've seen that disabled for certain types of timers. I don't remember if it's based on using the "Security" option, or if they are "old style" dimmers. I'd have to go back and take a look when I'm at home later.

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