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Poll

Does X10 control from a Raspberry Pi excite you?

Yes! The possibilities are endless. Full automation here I come.
- 13 (72.2%)
No. It's way too complicated.
- 2 (11.1%)
Meh
- 3 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 18


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Author Topic: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you  (Read 650 times)

petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2018, 07:16:12 PM »

I found Neil Cherry's article quite interesting. It's probably been posted here before but still worth a read https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4312
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petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 01:43:29 PM »

Thanks for all the feedback.

My OP mentioning that approximately 10 users were interested in X10 on the Raspberry Pi was fairly accurate. Now all we need to figure out is what each of those 10 users would like to get out of this.

Maybe you could post your comments on what way you would like to see this develop for you and we could put together some form of hardware/software package recommendation based on those needs.

A number of platforms have already been suggested and Tuicemen has put together some scripts in the Raspberry Pi section of the forum to get you started. Once you have decided what route to take we can step you through the process.
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 02:47:48 PM »

Yes it would be nice to see just what users may be interested in.
Just X10 control simular to what the WM100 provides, but without the need of a cloud based server?
X10 control like what AHP and a transceiver (cm15,19 or 11) provides?
X10 control like AHP with all plugins and a transceiver provides?
Simple X10 voice control via Alexa or Google?
Everything X10, more control then AHP and all plugins (voice control & weather and other optional triggers)?

Realy the possibilities are endless thought the more options one wishes for the more time it takes to setup.
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petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 03:32:37 PM »

Yes it would be nice to see just what users may be interested in.
Just X10 control simular to what the WM100 provides, but without the need of a cloud based server?
X10 control like what AHP and a transceiver (cm15,19 or 11) provides?
X10 control like AHP with all plugins and a transceiver provides?
Simple X10 voice control via Alexa or Google?
Everything X10, more control then AHP and all plugins (voice control & weather and other optional triggers)?

Realy the possibilities are endless thought the more options one wishes for the more time it takes to setup.

Maybe the pure X10 approach to start with. The WM100 approach seems to be a popular choice so maybe we could recreate that blueprint with everything working as it should be. Once that's achieved we can add to it as and when each user requires it.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2018, 07:39:28 PM »

I've had a simple "WORKING" X10 setup running well now for several months.

I was unaware of that. It should be posted somewhere.

I originally figured from reading your and others exploits that this would be just a hobby to play with on rainy days.

I guess you could call X10 a hobby... it is for most... I am sure. I think of my automation as more of a lifestyle. Unfortunately... when you were originally experimenting with a Pi-X10 download... the summer season had begun. Summer is a busy time for me.... more so now than when I was employed.

When the original version had bugs.... and then the thread was locked... I apparently lost track of your accomplishments. I thought you had moved the whole project to your own web site.

This was not the case with HomeGenie simple x10 control was up and running in less time then it took to write a SD card.

I'd like to try that out.
But I am not interested in a new programing hobby that involves learning raspbian. I KNOW the little Pi devices have huge potential.... as my Homeseer device is a Pi unit. The only problem with using Homeseer to control X10 is... Homeseer is NOT really interested in supporting X10. So... then I have to try on my purchasing agent hat.... and look at the price/costs of switching flavors/brands that has readily available devices and hubs.

An affordable Pi X10 hub.... is a perfect fix for any and all of X10 problems if it allows Cloud/Alexa-google IFTTT connectivity (with local control a serious plus for many). 

I've enjoyed voice control for more than a decade now.... and REALLY enjoy the added advantages of cloud assisted automation. Mixing calendars, schedules, reminders, timers, music, and movie streaming with my lighting control is awesome. No way am I going back... if I don't have to.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 07:47:05 PM by HA Dave »
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petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2018, 06:14:37 AM »

The whole idea of X10 on the Raspberry Pi is the promotion of a community initiative. The forum members will drive the development.

There are a number of commercial home automation products in the marketplace that utilise the Raspberry Pi but X10 is not officially supported on any of them. Homeseer for example in its earlier incarnation officially supported X10 but since it's last major upgrade that official support has now been dropped and is provided on an ad hoc basis.

For those who have now expressed an interest in X10 on the Raspberry Pi, we need to agree the best route to go about this. As Tuicemen stated the setup procedures to achieve this are no more difficult than writing a few macros in AHP. Absolutely no requirement to learn a new OS. Just follow the logical steps provided to achieve a result.

One thing that is required is a little patience and positivity working through the initial setup and once that's achieved you will be presented with a very capable X10 controller which will be free of any dependence on manufacturers ability or inability to provide you with the features you require when you require them.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2018, 08:39:28 AM »

... One thing that is required is a little patience and positivity working through the initial setup and once that's achieved you will be presented with a very capable X10 controller which will be free of any dependence on manufacturers ability or inability to provide you with the features you require when you require them.

That sorta sounds nicer than the "this is a good way for beginners to learn Raspbian"..... but really aren't you actually posting the same thing... reworded??? Was the download(s) ever fixed and now work..... or does this require specialized changes (AKA coding) to make the setup function???

Many of us have worked diligently for many years here at the forum to help fellow X10 users have working setups. NEVER... have any of the members here that I am aware of.... stooped to anything less than an honest representation. 

It's OK to have hobby's other than X10 automation! It's OK to have an interest in programming. It's OK to like Linux, raspbian, or any alternate OS... as far as I am concerned. But decide one way or the other... is this an X10 solution or Raspbian, Linux, "free-software" advocacy. Then move the direction you chose and promote it that way.

Get your pose in order.
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2018, 08:51:32 AM »

The beginner install threads I started for HomeGenie and HA-Bridge were locked to keep them on topic and discussion posts moved to another thread. I figured any updates would get lost in a long thread.
My HG & Bridge setup was already running smoothly when I started those threads.

The Alexa Bridge Project thread I started did have bugs in the initial script But this was quickly solved. Since user input and interest was low I did move the actual installer to my site for anyone wishing to test.
Since the Alexa Project uses a different driver then my HomeGenie setup I could not run both on a Single PI and switching SD drives seemed pointless for improving something which showed little interest. Of the few users that actually installed this none have reported issues with the install. Any issues reported were Amazon server related.
I still have Alexa Control however I use the HomeGenie X10 driver instead of using Mochad.

True I don't have a specific thread detailing my PI HA setups, the closest I have to this is the threads for my off grid and city place. Both of which have been running a WORKING PI, HG, & Bridge setup for months. Since my summer months are spent at the off grid place that setup is much larger as I add things. The city place setup is much smaller but has been working untouched other then when a power blip corupted my SD card. Although I can log into my city setup from the off grid place and add to it via the cloud I prefer not to. I have however logged in and updated HG via the cloud. All this can be done with my phone if I wished either using the browser of HG app.
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petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2018, 10:23:17 AM »

The bottom line here is that there's a working X10 controller based Raspberry Pi solution available to try now. I'd not be discussing this matter here if the WM100 did what it promised to do. The fact that it's not we are where we are now.

@Tuicemen I'll assume it's the HomeGenie route so best to start with a simplistic X10 setup along the lines of AHP so any potential users can familiarise themselves with the HomeGenie environment. From there you could modularise any further enhancements as and when users require them, such as the Bridge for Alexa, voice control etc. The biggest investment here is a Raspberry Pi kit and a piece of your time. Not a large investment for the return you're likely to receive.

The results of the poll are in. Ten forum members would like a crack at X10 on the Raspberry Pi. Let's give them what they voted for.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2018, 09:53:05 AM »

The beginner install threads I started for HomeGenie and HA-Bridge were locked to keep them on topic....

It is a sad, shame, you decided to take that direction. Locking a thread is a topic killer... always has been. A locked thread is "literally" history. No body goes to a forum to study the history of cutting edge technology.

We've had some VERY long, rambling, and very successful threads here. I think the idea of locking your thread... was bad advice... and cut the legs out from under your original idea.

I also think the idea of converting this forum in any part.... to a sub-set of the free software advocacy.... is a bad idea and a disservice to X10 (who own this forum). After all.... X10 (and this forum) exists for the purpose of making profit. Software has, for many years, been one of the profit making products that X10 sold.

In the spirt of the purpose and reason for this [service providing] forum... we should all share in an interest in helping X10 find/create/develop a profit producing product. And NEVER promote a means of eliminating the usefulness of an X10 product line/item.

I hope this all works out.... for the benefit of everyone.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 10:08:07 AM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2018, 10:22:22 AM »

The bottom line here is that there's a working X10 controller based Raspberry Pi solution available to try now.

Fantastic! Do you have a link? I'd like to try that myself.

But like with Tuicemen's HomeGenie route..... I am not interested in a thread that "teaches" Raspbian, Linux, or app creation. 

And to be open and honest.... not only am I only interested in a download-and-go product.... I'd like to see it eventually be managed by X10. With X10 specific hardware and call-in tech service.

NOT that I have anything against the forum code writers in any way. I just don't see any evidence of any product line surviving under user control. X10 NEEDS a hub. I believe the ideas here of a Pi based X10 hub has already been proven to work (via Homeseer). But I don't know of any business who has learned to exist without a profit. X10 needs this hub as much as it's customers.
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2018, 11:11:49 AM »

I also believe most users thinking about a PI X0 HUB aren't interested in learning a new OS, or to code.
A simple cut and paste cloud installer link is I believe what most none techie users want thus the first post of the HomeGenie tutorial thread. http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30427.msg174845#msg174845

 I also don't wish to read through a thread of 10 or more pages of posts  about the weather, what someone did in their yard, on their honey do list etc. to see the latest developments on the front of the OP, thus my reason of locking a how to thread.
Once the tutorial is done I may unlock it however for now questions about HG can be posted else where in the same section.
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brobin

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2018, 12:31:03 PM »

I also believe most users thinking about a PI X0 HUB aren't interested in learning a new OS, or to code.
A simple cut and paste cloud installer link is I believe what most none techie users want thus the first post of the HomeGenie tutorial thread. http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30427.msg174845#msg174845

 I also don't wish to read through a thread of 10 or more pages of posts  about the weather, what someone did in their yard, on their honey do list etc. to see the latest developments on the front of the OP, thus my reason of locking a how to thread.
Once the tutorial is done I may unlock it however for now questions about HG can be posted else where in the same section.

I agree with both points.  Most people want to buy a plug 'n play solution. Those of us here are an infinitesimal subset of the vast number of X10 users and are avid enthusiasts.  Most users just want to turn on some lights and don't really care what's under the hood. If Authinx wants a piece of the action then they need to pony up the cash to develop a product that satisfies user's needs.  They bought the brand and somehow didn't even get delivery of the AHP software before cutting the check!  Dumb - unless the issue was priced into the deal in which case they need to invest the savings to rebuild it or similar from scratch.

There are very few supported X10 controllers available in the market now.  The best of those is probably Universal Devices which I once used for an Insteon based system.  Still supports X10, as well as Insteon, Zwave and others, and has an active community and excellent support team.  A bit pricey but that development and support ain't cheap!

As for your choice to maintain a "noiseless" thread for the scripts and operational information - brilliant! A companion topic for discussion can be just as effective. 
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »


...  Most people want to buy a plug 'n play solution. ……. Most users just want to turn on some lights and don't really care what's under the hood.

I agree completely. Not only... because most of X10's customers predate the "smart home concept" (that X10 created with the CM11A & CM15A). But (IMHO) most X10 users found X10 while looking for a solution to a problem. And those problems were often about lighting... or landscape irrigation.

But lighting control.... as big as that was years ago... isn't that big a deal in todays world of automation. Heck... todays LED lights don't use anymore electric than the old nightlights (7 watt) we used years ago. New Home Automation users want to interconnect programs and control things.... not just lights.
 
If Authinx wants a piece of the action then they need to pony up the cash to develop a product that satisfies user's needs. 

Again I agree. But the discussion about "who" the potential X10 customers are.... has been had. And few of the current forum users want the same things that current adopters of automation technologies demand. Authinx took the forums "free" advice of avoiding cloud technology (in a cloud based world)…. and the advice they got was worth every cent they paid for it.

Without a vision.... Authinx can't formulate a workable plan. X10 has to decide where they want to go. And... hasn't that been the VERY SAME problem/mistake made with the Pi Hub development as well. No vision... no plan. No metrics that allow you to decide where you're at in the process... or know how long it will take.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 05:52:20 PM by HA Dave »
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2018, 07:37:44 PM »

Authinx took the forums "free" advice of avoiding cloud technology (in a cloud based world). and the advice they got was worth every cent they paid for it.
:o the WM100 is cloud based! So how did they take the fourm user base suggestion and avoid it?
Quote
Without a vision.... Authinx can't formulate a workable plan. X10 has to decide where they want to go. And... hasn't that been the VERY SAME problem/mistake made with the Pi Hub development as well. No vision... no plan. No metrics that allow you to decide where you're at in the process... or know how long it will take.

Again  :o Pi Hubs have been around for years even you have admitted to using one. what PI HUB development are you referencing?
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