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Poll

Does X10 control from a Raspberry Pi excite you?

Yes! The possibilities are endless. Full automation here I come.
- 13 (72.2%)
No. It's way too complicated.
- 2 (11.1%)
Meh
- 3 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 18


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Author Topic: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you  (Read 648 times)

dave w

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2018, 09:02:06 PM »

They bought the brand and somehow didn't even get delivery of the AHP software before cutting the check!  Dumb -
Long story behind that. The short story is: the foreign owner of X10 WTI basically, without any notice, pulled the plug and told everyone at the Seattle HQ they were "no longer getting paid as of today" and the same message went to the landlord. I am surprised there was anything concrete for Authinx to buy.
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Brian H

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2018, 06:09:49 AM »

I experienced a similar thing.

The morning of the eventful day. The forums where active and I was answering inquiries.
Later in the day. Forums and X10 sales sites just gone and parked on a web address holding site. No WARNING at all.
X10 Wireless Technologies just pulled the plug and all the employees where out of a job.

I understand that Authinx had only a short time span to try and move the servers. Damage occurred and servers obsolete old parts where not a good option to totally fix them. AHP was scattered all over the place in different servers and there was no real order of how each programmers part of AHP integrated with other AHP programmers parts.

Now that many automation users are told by the supposed experts. To avoid X10 completely. I am not too sure what the fate of X10 is. I don't see it being pushed except by users now using X10.

Although I have moved on to Insteon. My older hardware modules still accept an X10 Address and I have some X10 modules in use . So X10 is still part of my setup. Just not my primary protocol.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:42:41 AM by Brian H »
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2018, 10:40:56 AM »

:o the WM100 is cloud based! So how did they take the fourm user base suggestion and avoid it?

No. The Internet is cloud based. The WM100 does everything it can to avoid the "scary" cloud. And it's SAD! The WM100 could have been introduced with an ability to use IFTTT and/or the Echo/google devices..... and X10 would be in a MUCH better situation today.

Again  :o Pi Hubs have been around for years even you have admitted to using one. what PI HUB development are you referencing?

Oh come on. If you don't understand a vision, flow charts, metrics…. that's OK with me.... but I think you DO.

I am sorry my contributions to your Pi hub experiment were not appreciated. I willingly loaded and reloaded my Pi memory card 3 times. I like your idea.... and was fully invested in it's success. Posts like mine.... and others (yourself included)... are found throughout these forums.... including many successful and popular threads. I think shutting [locking] your thread down was a mistake. But it wasn't MY mistake! I never once suggested you kill your idea.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:38:19 AM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2018, 11:13:16 AM »

…... I am not too sure what the fate of X10 is. I don't see it being pushed except by users now using X10.

Although I have moved on to Insteon. My older hardware modules...……... So X10 is still part of my setup. Just not my primary protocol.

It breaks my heart to read your posts about moving on Brian H. I've always admired the detailed accuracy of your posts.... and on occasion waited for your posts (in difficult trouble shooting threads)…. to read your insights.

I also having been trying and using other flavors/brands of automation products.... telling myself I am experimenting with integration. My X10 equipment/devices/set-up work(s) flawlessly... and I think I actually have an emotional attachment to X10. So... my emotions may effect the clarity of my thoughts here.... but I think X10 has a slight advantage with a NON-WiFi based protocol. Since even refrigerators, dishwashers, and toasters use WiFi now-a-days.... a non-standard protocol does have free space.

I recently disassembled and rebuilt or "reimagined" my entire automation setup. I decided too much advancement had taken place in the last couple years.... to keep trying to build-on to my old setup. Admittedly.... it's a vision thing. Every manager knows... there comes a time in every products life.... that you have to scrap everthing and start anew.

What dissapoints me most..... is seeing this forum so dead-set in keeping Home Automation remote controlled lighting and timed irragation. I think the old X10 PLC protocol can survive modern technology. But IMHO the old ideas about what automation is.... will kill X10. And..... I swear to God... I also hope I am wrong.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:21:20 AM by HA Dave »
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2018, 11:26:51 AM »

With all this said..... I still believe that an X10 Pi-based Hub.... could be the savior and future of X10. AND... I can see no reason what-so-ever why this can't be a user developed product. Even if a X10 Pi Hub is eventually sold/distributed/marketed by X10.... due to the to the efforts of a limited few here at this forum... everyone would benefit.

But every successful product begins with a vison of the future.... and NOT the fear of it. 

Todays technology is in the cloud. Period. The cloud needs to be exploited.. not avoided. We need to think far ahead of remote controlled lighting. It's time to look at what CAN be done... not what we used to do in the past.   
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:31:32 AM by HA Dave »
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bkenobi

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2018, 11:37:53 AM »

The internet has been around for a long time (since Al Gore created it).  The cloud is just a way of marketing the internet and make it sound hip and new (granted the term has been used for years, so that's kind of a fail).  Again, no one is saying that having a network solution to control things is bad.  The opposite is true which is why people are interested in RPi and similar solutions since those devices can act as an HA controller with an internet connection (cloud if you prefer).  The cloud is not a problem.  The problem is that when the ONLY way to access your device is through a server that you have no control over, you are placing a bet that that server will last longer than your interest in using their device (not your's since it only functions because they choose to allow it to function).  If the device has local control (be it a button on the device or an interface through WiFi, or whatever else), the device functions regardless of the fate of that server.

Do people here think that X10 was making all their money on software?  I don't know the answer so that's a legitimate question.  When I started, I bought a large amount of modules and X10 gave me AHP and all the add-ons for free.  Maybe someone out there bought the software on it's own, but it was my impression that the software was there to get people to buy more modules.  Since X10 has abandoned AHP (well, it was destroyed when they bought the company).  As such, if there is a better software package that makes people want more modules, X10 should be ok with it being promoted here.  I haven't seen a post by anyone who works at X10 in years, so we are just assuming unless they were to chime in.
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brobin

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2018, 12:10:01 PM »

Well said bkenobi.  In the mid-90's I bought a ReplayTV (and more of them over the years) which got it's "cloud based" program guide via dial up and, as time went on, broadband.  I had "Lifetime Subscriptions" and continued using them till 2013 when I switched to Tivo. The company was bought and sold a few times and there were a couple of times when users were informed that the "Lifetime" was over and the servers would be shuttered.  The owner relented once or twice but finally shut them down.  An enthusiastic and talented user group was able to create their own server to continue to provide program data for a nominal fee to cover the cost of the underlying data source.  The risk associated with cloud based services is nothing new.  Cloud based services are terrific and provide lots of benefits but the risks need to be recognized and minimized. 
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2018, 12:43:59 PM »


No. The Internet is cloud based. The WM100 does everything it can to avoid the "scary" cloud. And it's SAD! The WM100 could have been introduced with an ability to use IFTTT and/or the Echo/google devices..... and X10 would be in a MUCH better situation today.
Your right the cloud is the internet not something new If you think the WM100 doesn't use the internet unplug your router from the internet and then Unplug and reconnect your Wm100 then try to connect to it to turn something on or off or even wait to see if one of your timers fires on time. In fact with out the internet after your power comes back on your WM100 is a door stop. True the WM100 doesn't intergrade with other internet based things(IFTT, Google, Alexa) But some of these are planned (or so I've been told).

Quote
I am sorry my contributions to your Pi hub experiment were not appreciated. I willingly loaded and reloaded my Pi memory card 3 times. I like your idea.... and was fully invested in it's success. .
I never had a PI Hub thread that I locked either here or on my own forum. These were how to install and setup software threads, which I do appreciate your input on. They were never intended to be for a PI Hub experiment thought they could be. If you wish to start a thread on creating a PI Hub by all means do so.
The community I believe expects Community Organizers  to organize. This thread was originally started by petera to see if there was any interest at all in creating some sort of PI Hub (I believe).
This may or may not include software I've posted tutorials on but some direction needs to be inplace.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »

.... The cloud is just a way of marketing the internet and make it sound hip and new

Wow. I don't think you could be anymore wrong. Maybe.... just too many trees blocking your view of the forest.

.The cloud is not a problem.  The problem is that when the ONLY way to access your device is through a server that you have no control over, you are placing a bet that that server will last longer than your interest in using their device .  If the device has local control (be it a button on the device or an interface through WiFi, or whatever else), the device functions regardless of the fate of that server.

There are some users.... who have little or NO grid capabilities. They require "special" solutions. But for the vast majority of Home Automation users access to servers are NOT a problem.

Control issues?!?!? According to my son (who works for the foremost electric power provider) eletric power is also cloud driven technology now-a-days. So... there is no way to effectively avoid the cloud (even with conventional old fashion switch-flipping). Control... or the desire for control... is after all, a fear based [spiritual] issue. In todays spiritually deprived world... I am not surprised to see that be an issue with any situation. Fortunately... at my age... I am not so much troubled with fear of future events. Although.... I am no less human than anyone else. 

Well said bkenobi.  In the mid-90's I bought a ReplayTV....
..The risk associated with cloud based services is nothing new.  Cloud based services are terrific and provide lots of benefits but the risks need to be recognized and minimized.

Yes. And after little more than a 100 years... Sear's filed for bankruptcy just the other day. It would be a shame.... if you are just now realizing that all products, brands, companies, PEOPLE... are only temporary. Most jobs people work today..... will no longer exist... when my granddaughter is my age. Our (great) used-to-could stories won't change/fix/alter.... anything.

Everything changes. And cutting edge technology changes VERY fast. I don't expect my Amazon 2nd gen devices to still function when the 5th or 6th gen is released. These are NOT risks. This is the natural evolution of technology. It can NOT be managed or controlled. This is something normally dealt with spiritually. Meaning.... it can only be accepted for what it is.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 01:08:03 PM »

. .. This thread was originally started by petera to see if there was any interest at all in creating some sort of PI Hub (I believe).


As I've posted (and voted) earlier.... YES I whole heartedly support an X10 Pi Hub. AND... I'd think it would be best if integrated with as much, and many protocols as it can be. I think many of us have already bought Pi device(s) in this pursuit.... and would continue to invest both time and money for such an attempt.

But.... an X10 Pi Hub.... and all new products need a vision (or at least a well defined mission). This ain't stamp collecting! If operated like a hobby (see WM-100). the chances of success are limited.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 01:17:13 PM by HA Dave »
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 01:22:05 PM »

YES I whole heartedly support an X10 Pi Hub.
then we need a thread for such! ;) ;) ;)
Quote
AND... I'd think it would be best if integrated with as much, and many protocols as it can be. I think many of us have already bought Pi device(s) in this pursuit.... and would continue to invest both time and money for such an attempt.
I agree but then it is a universal HUB which is not a problem. other then the software becomes bloated with all the options as users want Plug and Play not install this then install that and if that doesn't work uninstall and try again.
Quote
But.... an X10 Pi Hub.... and all new products need a vision (or at least a well defined mission). This ain't stamp collecting! If operated like a hobby (see WM-100). the chances of success are limited.
So get us started! The hardware is available or as others have shown can be created as is the software for most stuff.
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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 01:51:59 PM »

So get us started!

Always.... start at the beginning.

I don't think X10 will profit from the.... what is it... about 50 (?) regular X10 old-timers who use this forum. Let's not assume we know the new Home Automation adopters... OR what it is they want from Home Automation. Let us all... peruse other Home Automation forums (many of us already do). See what popular Hub threads are posting about. What does todays new users want/need. What BESIDES ECHO + GOOGLE connectivity.... would attract new users (pronounced: customers with money) to a new X10 Hub/device. Lets collect (post) some links of things new users want. Lets build a vision/mission.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 02:05:01 PM by HA Dave »
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Tuicemen

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2018, 02:40:11 PM »

I meant in a new thread! And keep it on topic.

Posting links to other hub forums threads for request or adds only shows a HUB of any sort needs to be expandable.
A Pi running Linux allows that now.
There are several Linux programs that supply support for all that and if the support isn't there an end user can create it usualy if they have the skill set. GitHub is full of code to intergrate different hardware devices.


Authinx's thoughts on developement of a x10 Hub is for the average user not a power user. Thus the WM100 which very few of us here on this forum are happy with. ::) :'
Even Authinx is frustrated with the WM factory and developer, to the point of not wanting to develop any more new modules :(

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HA Dave

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2018, 09:04:52 PM »

… Posting links to other hub forums threads for request or adds only shows a HUB of any sort needs to be expandable.
A Pi running Linux allows that now....

Other flavors/brands of home automation products are looking for product integration... like cameras, alarm systems, locks... etc. Much like the X10 forums of the old days when AHP had servers.

Authinx's thoughts on development of a x10 Hub is for the average user not a power user. …….

As usual (and as a coder writer you know)…. it's never so much about the hardware. It's the software that makes it all work. I am still a big fan of those little Pi's... but checking around reading about where all the other cloud based systems are headed...….. Well it just reminded me of how correct Brian H is. It's time to move on. I want some of the [modern] "services" as part of my setup..... that may never be a part of any X10 setup.
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petera

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Re: X10 on the Raspberry Pi- Is it of interest to you
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 09:18:33 AM »

Basically what is required here is a "dumb" X10 controller transceiver that will do as you ask of it without any signal degradation. All the logic will be carried out at software level via the combination of software and the SBC (Raspberry Pi) in this instance.

Now that we have determined the following, the software/Raspberry Pi side of the equation is solved and Authinx are unlikely to pursue any further serious development, we make do with what controllers are available to us and/or go down the DIY route.

We are lucky enough to have people like Jeff Volp on board here with real technical hardware experience who can guide us on the path. I suppose you could say he is DIY (no offence Jeff Volp) but he has filled in the gaps left by X10 manufacturers and in fact has superceeded them in many cases.

I wonder if Jeff Volp sees merit in what is being proposed here and how he might view his concepts/products being teamed up with  the Raspberry Pi/X10/ home automation proposal here.
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