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Author Topic: Single Gang Box with two switches  (Read 360 times)

LostDog88

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Single Gang Box with two switches
« on: October 25, 2018, 12:00:15 AM »

How do y'all handle this situation?

I would like to automate even the bathroom switches.

Currently there is a single gang box with two switches. I cannot find a like replacement from X10. Is there any way to control a light and fan separately without changing out the box. Everything I can find is a rocker switch that requires a double gang box to keep two switches that are X10 compatible.

Any ideas?
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 12:57:43 AM »

Assuming they still control X10, the Insteon Remote Control Dimmer KeypadLinc #2334 is your best bet along with an XPFM Inline Receiver Module.  The keypad can directly control the lighting fixture with on/off/dim (or use the 2487 for on/off) and send X10 commands to 5 or 7 other devices depending on which keypad you choose.  You can use one of the other buttons to toggle the fan by sending on/off commands to the XPFM which can be mounted in or above the fan housing.  Then just wirenut hot to the fan wire in the existing box.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 07:49:18 AM »

Since you have posted about watching switch conditions as well, have a look at the X10 pro key pads https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/in-wall-keypads.html
Then depending on the number of switches you go with use inline modules https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/modules/xpfm.html
 >!
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 08:46:05 AM »

have a look at the X10 pro key pads https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/in-wall-keypads.html
Then depending on the number of switches you go with use inline modules https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/modules/xpfm.html
 >!

I like the idea of two switches....but I am thinking (please, understand i can be very slow sometimes) that I would need to control modules. One for the lights and one for the fan?
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 09:07:48 AM »

Assuming they still control X10, the Insteon Remote Control Dimmer KeypadLinc #2334 is your best bet along with an XPFM Inline Receiver Module.  The keypad can directly control the lighting fixture with on/off/dim (or use the 2487 for on/off) and send X10 commands to 5 or 7 other devices depending on which keypad you choose.  You can use one of the other buttons to toggle the fan by sending on/off commands to the XPFM which can be mounted in or above the fan housing.  Then just wirenut hot to the fan wire in the existing box.

I like this idea the best except that it appears that there are 6 switches on the face of this. I am certain that the people in my wife's (believe me, i deal with this every day) will never figure out how to turn off a light or turn on a fan or there are a million ways they would screw this up and get lost in the bathroom. LOL.

Is there just a two switch option? I checked, but it seems then I would have to have controller modules in the boxes of the light and the fan. Will they fit in the box that is existing?
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 10:44:52 AM »

If you use the 6 button keypad you can have the large top & bottom buttons work as ON and OFF for the main light and the other buttons for the fan and anything else you like. They offer an engraving option for the switch labels. They used to have clear caps too so you could make your own labels.  The keypads contain one dimmer switch so noting else is needed in the single gang box.  The inline module for the fan can be installed in the fan housing.

As for what to do with the extra buttons, here's an idea: Assuming the inline module for the fan is set to A2, One button on the keypad will be set to A2 for simple on/off.  Use the other 3 buttons as timers for the fan, say, 10, 20 & 30 minutes. When you press the 10 minute button it could transmit A3 ON. When your controller sees A3 ON use it as a trigger to send A2 ON, delay 10 min and send A2 OFF.  A4 and A5 would trigger the same response with different delay times.  Now the extra buttons will make sense if labeled "FAN 10" etc.

Another option is to use the top large button to toggle the light and the bottom large button to toggle the fan and the other for as timer buttons.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 12:36:10 PM »

have a look at the X10 pro key pads https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/in-wall-keypads.html
Then depending on the number of switches you go with use inline modules https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/modules/xpfm.html
 >!

I like the idea of two switches....but I am thinking (please, understand i can be very slow sometimes) that I would need to control modules. One for the lights and one for the fan?
Your correct as these keypads only send x10 PLC commands
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x10wizard

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 10:24:30 PM »

If you use the 6 button keypad you can have the large top & bottom buttons work as ON and OFF for the main light and the other buttons for the fan and anything else you like. They offer an engraving option for the switch labels. They used to have clear caps too so you could make your own labels.  The keypads contain one dimmer switch so noting else is needed in the single gang box.  The inline module for the fan can be installed in the fan housing.

As for what to do with the extra buttons, here's an idea: Assuming the inline module for the fan is set to A2, One button on the keypad will be set to A2 for simple on/off.  Use the other 3 buttons as timers for the fan, say, 10, 20 & 30 minutes. When you press the 10 minute button it could transmit A3 ON. When your controller sees A3 ON use it as a trigger to send A2 ON, delay 10 min and send A2 OFF.  A4 and A5 would trigger the same response with different delay times.  Now the extra buttons will make sense if labeled "FAN 10" etc.

Another option is to use the top large button to toggle the light and the bottom large button to toggle the fan and the other for as timer buttons.

Can the 6-button keypad really be set up with the top large button and bottom large button independent of one another?  As far as I know, the top button is always the ON button, and the bottom button is always the OFF button, for the connected load.  You can't assign a separate X10 address to the bottom button.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 10:35:24 PM by x10wizard »
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 12:02:22 AM »

Good catch! - you're right, it's been a long time since I used one and I was thinking it had the same flexibility as the 8 button kp.  B:(
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Noam

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 09:36:03 AM »

If you use the 6 button keypad you can have the large top & bottom buttons work as ON and OFF for the main light and the other buttons for the fan and anything else you like. They offer an engraving option for the switch labels. They used to have clear caps too so you could make your own labels.  The keypads contain one dimmer switch so noting else is needed in the single gang box.  The inline module for the fan can be installed in the fan housing.

I'm not seeing a 6-button keypad on X10's site. Smarthome has one, though. I'm not sure if it (still) supports X10 addresses or not, though.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:08:23 AM by Noam »
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 09:47:13 AM »

The Insteon Remote Control Dimmer 6 Button KeypadLinc #2334-232 is available at Smarthome.com or on Amazon. On your first Smarthome visit a pop-up will offer you a 20% discount code in exchange for your email address. Do it - you can always unsubscribe later.
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SkipWX10

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 05:03:54 PM »

This thread really interests me...The 2334-232 seems like a solution to an issue I have. Can I replace a PLW01 with this and have local control over what the PLW01 controls (plus scheduled timers for same) and use the other 4 for my other, now module or WS467 controlled lighting? Some of the others are now using timed events but the main reason for this would be to control an outside floodlight my wife likes to turn on for taking the dog out at night. The WS467 for this floodlight is halfway across the house from the door we go out and I now use a stick-up switch as a remote for that light and it often doesn't retain it's programming or turn on/off the lighting.

Also, if this send PL signal and wireless and I have a PAT02 in the same room, any possibility of collisions causing issues?

Thanks for the education!
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bkenobi

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 05:25:24 PM »

Disclaimer: don't have the Insteon switch

You cannot use the 2334-232 for local control.  It sends PLC signals that other modules will pick up.  You CAN wire things up so they will work though.  If you wire the Insteon switch in place of the switch (assuming you have all 3 wires into that switch box), you can run hot directly to the fixture that was controlled by the PLW01.  Inside the box where that light is controlled, you can install some sort of fixture module (XPDF if you want dimmable).

The Insteon will send a signal and the XPDF will respond however this is not exactly local control.
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 06:13:23 PM »

The 2334-232 DOES have local control for one unit code. It is a combination keypad and dimmer switch. You can also get it in an 8 button flavor or non-dimming version. Button #1 (top) on the 6 button keypad will turn On the load connected to it and button #6 (bottom) will turn it Off. Pressing those buttons not only controls the attached load but transmits the device and command (i.e. A1-ON) via PLC (not RF).  Pressing any one of the other four buttons will toggle and transmit an ON or OFF to the programmed device.  The 8 button version is the same except the attached load is controlled by button #1 as it is toggled on & off.  In all cases the button lights up when ON - whether from being pressed or from receiving the PLC command.

I have one in a bathroom where I have recessed lighting, vanity bars, exhaust fan and accent lighting in the cove ceiling.  The single gang switch box by the bathroom door controls the overhead lighting only.  I replaced the switch with a 2334-232 (8 button version) and it controls the recessed lighting manually and by PLC.  I put the Smarthome dimmer switches (that also transmit & receive their assigned codes) in the double gang box further in the bathroom that has the wiring for the vanities and accent lights.  The keypad uses button 1 for the recessed light connected to it and buttons 2, 3 & 4 to transmit to the other two lights & fan so everything can be controlled when entering or leaving the bathroom.  The accent light is also controlled by my Stargate which turns on the light and causes that keypad button to light.

Here's the owner's manual for the 6 & 8 button units: http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2334-2xx.pdf
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