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Author Topic: Single Gang Box with two switches  (Read 1584 times)

Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2019, 06:12:51 AM »

The manual indicates you need to send the X10 address and then an On to the House Code. To add an X10 Primary Address.
Like an A2 AON sequence after doing the needed button pushes to add an X10 Primary Address to one of the buttons.
If you can call it an X10 module just put it into the X10 programming mode and send an On from HG to get it programmed.

Also you don't have to use a controller and software for programming an X10 Primary Address. I have programmed Insteon Primary Addresses into my modules with an X10 Remote and transceiver. Starting the add X10 Primary Address sequence and using the remote to send the wanted X10 address and an On.

Trying the added features like ramp rate, On Level, Scenes and others. Needing the House Code only commands shown in the web page link. May not work. X10 Scene Addresses where dropped years ago and official X10 support was also dropped recently. Though many modules still unofficially support X10 Primary Addresses. Not too sure how up to date the information on the web page for X10 support is. The manual from the Keypads sales site is 7/25/2013. Things are different now.

Smarthome discontinued their X10 Tabletop controller. It had preset buttons to send all the needed Address Only House Code sequences.

Since the Insteon line of modules also used the another X10 dim protocol. Preset Dim and Standard Dim. If you are sending the X10 Extended Dim. Your modules may not respond. They should if you send the Standard Dim used by all X10 modules.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 08:00:53 AM by Brian H »
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2019, 06:31:48 PM »


Also you don't have to use a controller and software for programming an X10 Primary Address. I have programmed Insteon Primary Addresses into my modules with an X10 Remote and transceiver. Starting the add X10 Primary Address sequence and using the remote to send the wanted X10 address and an On.


So I build a module in Home Genie. Make it a switch. Set it to C16. (this is the address I want the insteon switch to be) click on and use a remote to send C16 three times. After setting the insteon switch in program mode.

Is this correct?

off to try it..................................
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Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2019, 07:28:55 PM »

The manual for the module. On pages 13-14 give the method to add an X10 Primary Address to a button.
Tap the button you want to use.
Push the set button until the module beeps and the LED flashes green.
Send the X10 address and an On three time on the power line. The module should beep twice and the LED should stop flashing.
You can use an X10 remote and tranceiver to send the signals or if HG can send an On three times in a row. By maybe turning the module on three times in the screen. Should also work. I have used remotes or an X10 controller to do mine from time to time.
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2019, 08:05:11 PM »

The manual for the module. On pages 13-14 give the method to add an X10 Primary Address to a button.
Tap the button you want to use.
Push the set button until the module beeps and the LED flashes green.
Send the X10 address and an On three time on the power line. The module should beep twice and the LED should stop flashing.
You can use an X10 remote and tranceiver to send the signals or if HG can send an On three times in a row. By maybe turning the module on three times in the screen. Should also work. I have used remotes or an X10 controller to do mine from time to time.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. The buttons just continue to blink. Like they are not receiving the X10 signal from the remote. I tried it with the X10 module i built in HG. No Joy. Remote. No Joy. It is NOT a phase couppling issue or noise issue.
I understand what to do. I am just not sure i have the right tools to make it happen. :-(
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Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2019, 06:44:27 AM »

Since this is a newly installed switch.
You may want to try a Factory Reset on it. There are posts on some Insteon Modules shipping with test links in them and acting strange. Many users do a Factory Reset on all of their new modules before installing.

So if you do the sequence. Tap the button you want the X10 address added too. Main On Off button set also will control the connected Load with an X10 address. Small Scene buttons X10 address when pushed send an X10 command to other X10 devices.
Hold the Set Button for the beep and the button LED flashes. Send the X10 address you wanted to add C1 in your case. C1On,C1On,C1On. The LED keeps flashing, no double beep and the X10 address is not added to the button selected.

I would suspect noise or signal not getting to the switch. Though you have a handle on such things.

Any way you can use the remote and a transceiver or plug in controller like a Mini Controller or Maxi Controller, connected to the same circuit as the switches. Your SC1200 can also send X10 On and Off commands on the power lines. Through the keyboard buttons. To the House Code you have selected in the Options menu. You can set it to C and then use the keypad buttons to send the On commands. To see if that changed anything?

If you can safely. Temporarily wire an test AC cord to one of the switches and plug it into the same circuit as the CM15A or remotes transceiver that could also show something. Though you would have to take it out of the box to do the tests.

Another remote possibility is Smartlabs finally removed X10 support from the module. As it has not been listed in the Keypads Specifications for awhile now. Just users reports of X10 still worked even if not specified any longer. Others here may have better information on their using X10 with the Keypad still working.

What are the numbers on the white sticker? Insteon six digit ID in this case not applicable for X10. Date Code and Hardware Revision number. I maybe able to poke around and see if I can find anything
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 03:42:22 PM by Brian H »
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2019, 11:31:32 AM »

It's been awhile since I've programmed one but I remember that a Maxi Controller or old Ultrasonic version was the better choice as you press two buttons, one for the unit code and one for ON, which the KP or switch seems to prefer.  I recall something in the original setup instructions about that from many years ago. BTW, the 'beep' is, to my old ears, barely perceptible probably because my tinnitus is louder and similar in frequency. :'
Here's the detailed instructions: https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/insteon-x10-programming
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2019, 02:57:16 PM »

It's been awhile since I've programmed one but I remember that a Maxi Controller or old Ultrasonic version was the better choice as you press two buttons, one for the unit code and one for ON, which the KP or switch seems to prefer.  I recall something in the original setup instructions about that from many years ago. BTW, the 'beep' is, to my old ears, barely perceptible probably because my tinnitus is louder and similar in frequency. :'
Here's the detailed instructions: https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/insteon-x10-programming

So I used an activhome pro setup that I have with a CM15 to follow the programming guide.
1st I put the switch in program mode. The only difference was the manual says the LED blinks green. I don't think it is green but I do get the beep and blinking.
I used the AHP and CM15 to send A13 Aon A13 Aon A13 Aon. The switch flashes.....and when the codes are send it flashes quickly instead of it's 1:1 tempo pace. This tells me the switch is sensing the X10 commands. But it never programs.

Ugh..... >*< >*<

 B:( B:(

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Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2019, 03:30:59 PM »

I see in the X10 Insteon Programming link from brobin.

The first paragraph says The new Insteon devices have X10 functionality phased out.
I know X10 is not listed in the specification pages of most of the sales pages now. Though unofficialy for awhile now. Some still did. Maye it is gone in the KeypadLincs now.

You could be correct. The double flashing of the LED may indelicate it received the signal but it was not accepted.
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2019, 03:49:20 PM »

I see in the X10 Insteon Programming link from brobin.

The first paragraph says The new Insteon devices have X10 functionality phased out.
I know X10 is not listed in the specification pages of most of the sales pages now. Though unofficialy for awhile now. Some still did. Maye it is gone in the KeypadLincs now.

You could be correct. The double flashing of the LED may indelicate it received the signal but it was not accepted.

The new switch comes with a simple pamphlet that states how to install it electrically.

There is a link (and I got from SmartHome) to a page that shows how to program X10 primary address to the switch. This link and info has been shared a bazillion (exaggerated) times in this thread. Smarthome insists that it will work. But I sure cannot do it. I am thinking that even though I did a macro in AHP with the Address and then the group on three times that I did it right.

Bottom line is I want to control a light with the top/bottom switch and then a bathroom fan with the scene buttons.

Is there any workaround besides the X10. I realize at this point I am going to probably have to spend more money for this. Fine. I am okay with that.

If that bathroom fan don't got no button for making it turn on. My woman is going to kill me.

I guess the cheapest solution is a slap a switch from X10 to control the fan. But I sure would not like to do that if not possible.
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brobin

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2019, 04:39:46 PM »

Just to make sure, after you press and hold the program button and the light starts blinking, you then first press the keypad button you want to program and then send the X10 codes, right?
I'll be at my other place this weekend where I have some of these, albeit they're 10 years old, so I'll try programming one to see exactly what works. I'll try with a mini-controller even though I've always used a maxi.
One other thing. Before you try again, pull out the programming button all the way till the LED goes off, then push it all the way in to get into programming mode.
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Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 06:25:42 AM »

The instructions for the present Dual Band Keypads. Say tap the button you want to add first. Then hold the programming button until the LED flashes and it beeps. Can't hurt to try holding the set button first and then tapping the button you want to use. To see if that method will work.

Your older Keypads are probably the old power line only 2486D and program differently depending on hardware revision.
Original hardware manual says hold the button you want to program until its LED flashes. Then send the X10 commands.
The hardware V5 manual says tap the button you want to program. Then hold the set button until it beeps and the Led starts flashing. Then send the X10 commands.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:57:58 AM by Brian H »
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 10:40:12 AM »

Just to make sure, after you press and hold the program button and the light starts blinking, you then first press the keypad button you want to program and then send the X10 codes, right?
I'll be at my other place this weekend where I have some of these, albeit they're 10 years old, so I'll try programming one to see exactly what works. I'll try with a mini-controller even though I've always used a maxi.
One other thing. Before you try again, pull out the programming button all the way till the LED goes off, then push it all the way in to get into programming mode.

The PDF says to push the button first. Then put the switch into linking mode. Pushing the button afterwards turned linking mode off. Once in linking mode, sending A1 Aon (repeat three times) should set the X10 address on the switch. In my case. No joy. I am told I can do it with a remote. But again. No joy. I tried with AHP. I made a macro that sends the commands and still no joy. I know I am doing something wrong as the switch tries to "listen" but does not program.
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Brian H

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 01:09:31 PM »

In AHP you could also make a Chime Module on the address you wanted to use. Then start the process and sound the chime from the AHP screen a few times. That will also send the on command each time you push the onscreen button.

There is still the possibility they finally dropped X10 support. As it looks like your module received the X10 addresses and didn't like it.
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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 01:11:44 PM »

In AHP you could also make a Chime Module on the address you wanted to use. Then start the process and sound the chime from the AHP screen a few times. That will also send the on command each time you push the onscreen button.

There is still the possibility they finally dropped X10 support. As it looks like your module received the X10 addresses and didn't like it.

I wonder if I bought an insteon hub. Would I be able to maybe trigger the X10 fan module based on pressing scene A button?

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LostDog88

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Re: Single Gang Box with two switches
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 01:14:54 PM »

Insteon support in my Home Genie program would be a solution to all this!!

I wish.....I wish.......I wish............

 ;D -:) :' rofl :)%
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