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Author Topic: Radar Detection Lighting  (Read 1734 times)

HA Dave

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Radar Detection Lighting
« on: November 19, 2018, 07:07:37 PM »

I've enjoyed motion detection lighting... for some years. I've used the standard PIR (passive InfraRed?) both outside for with X10 and other floodlight sensors, and indoors in the garage, laundry room, and one bathroom. Although I haven't had much luck with the little X10 battery powered "eye" sensors. The hard-wire PIR sensors that replace a standard wall switch have been great. I've also tried a screw-in sensor that went between the bulb and the and the screw-in base.

Recently I tried an LED lightbulb with built-in radar motion sensor. I'd put it in the laundry as often times it's convenient to have hands free lighting there. Interestingly... even though the room is large for a laundry room (aprox 12X14) it appears to catch activity well into sounding rooms.

This heightened (through glass and walls) sensitivity might be a little excessive for laundry room lighting (I am going to try PIR bulbs next)…. but for security lighting in my shed... it sounds ideal. Any others experimenting with this? 


https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Sensor-Bulb-Radar-LED/dp/B0796Q95KS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542671936&sr=8-4&keywords=radar+light+bulb
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dhouston

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 08:47:12 PM »

I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar. See...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar
for a definition/description of radar.
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HA Dave

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 10:58:31 PM »

I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar.....

Radio waves? I can't imagine why it wouldn't. Practically everything is some resonance, vibration, or wave of some kind. I feel confident it is "technically" radar.

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SkipWX10

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 11:05:11 PM »

I have looked at the 'radar' bulbs myself, as I thought they would be great for several applications at my house. The big holdup for me was exactly what you experienced....I thought they'd be nice in the connector from the house to the workshop and garage, but wouldn't tolerate activation from inside the room at either end...the reviews I read mentioned, for example, putting the bulb in the outside light by the door, but getting activation from inside the house. I think for the time being, I'll stick with the 'Eye' detectors I use now with great success. And BTW, the batteries have worked in mine for years with no issues, probably change every three years or so and the two I have in use detect at least 10 times a day...
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HA Dave

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 11:28:00 PM »

......the reviews I read mentioned, for example, putting the bulb in the outside light by the door, but getting activation from inside the house......

Yes..... that is exactly what I'd expect to happen. I am positive I get far more "friendly fire" lightings from non-laundry room traffic than useful lighting...... when entering the laundry room with a basket of laundry (the purpose of the detector).

But on the other hand.... The bulb burns a whole 7 watts.... and only remains on 20 secs after motion stops. So the wasted electric wouldn't likely be more than a minute or two of a 7 watt burn each day. However.... even though coming up with a "cost" would require a very sharp pencil... I don't like the idea of lights burning for no good reason.

I had [also] considered trying the bulb in the foyer. It would provide light if I entered the room at night. And... would [likely] also light up if a person approached the front door from the outside.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 11:31:07 PM by HA Dave »
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dhouston

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 06:13:22 AM »

I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar.....
Radio waves? I can't imagine why it wouldn't. Practically everything is some resonance, vibration, or wave of some kind. I feel confident it is "technically" radar.

Then what is its FCC ID?
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HA Dave

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 10:49:51 AM »

Then what is its FCC ID?

You remind me of the time my brother told me he had a new computer.... that was as fast as computers could ever be made. Because the processor speed/megahertz had entered into the realm or FM radio. Of course.... while being completely correct.... he was also absolutely wrong.

In THIS case..... it's important to remember that the FCC isn't responsible for regulating microwave radiation (just like the FCC doesn't regulate microwave ovens). So.... an FCC ID would be inappropriate. 
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bkenobi

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 11:56:27 AM »

Radar detectors (which don't transmit RF) have an FCC ID though?

Example:
https://fccid.io/HSXWH21
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dhouston

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 02:47:02 PM »

It turns out that technically it is radar - doppler radar, in fact. There are 5-6 companies with similar products and all appear to have repurposed an IC designed for PIR for use with RF. I did not find details on the frequencies used but with advertised range about equal to a PalmPad it's obvious they should have an FCC ID.
http://www.datasheetcafe.com/biss0001-datasheet-pdf/
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission#Unlicensed_spectrum
Quote
Normally, any intentional radio transmission requires an FCC license pursuant to Title III.  However, in recent decades the FCC has also opened some spectrum bands for unlicensed operations, typically restricting them to low power levels conducive to short-range applications.  This has facilitated the development of a very wide range of common technologies from wireless garage door openers, cordless phones, and baby monitors to Wi-Fi and Bluetooth among others.  However, unlicensed devices like most radio transmission equipment must still receive technical approval from the FCC before being sold into the marketplace, including to ensure that such devices cannot be modified by end users to increase transmit power above FCC limits.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:55:46 PM by dhouston »
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HA Dave

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 11:04:53 PM »

……. with advertised range about equal to a PalmPad it's obvious they should have an FCC ID.

Radar detectors (which don't transmit RF) have an FCC ID though?

You guys do realize the FCC (federal communication commission) IS a government entity.... right?  I wouldn't waste too much time wondering why logic and reason doesn't fully comply with government actions and/or regulation. They really DO NOT work that way.

Each government agency operates under the authority of a charter/directive or order. These orders can be finitely or loosely written giving broad powers for self regulation. Or oversight can even be provided by congress. It all depends on the mood and desire of congress on at the time the agency was either created or reviewed (if ever).

It could easily be the FCC doesn't want to be bothered with lightbulbs (at this time)…. or they requested authority over new tech lightbulbs.... and congress didn't care to review the request (at this time). I wouldn't read too much into it.

The real question here.... is how to exploit this new tech and make it our bit*h.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 11:07:04 PM by HA Dave »
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racerfern

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2018, 07:48:31 AM »

Interesting bulb, however it's not 360 detection. So the bulb should to be pointed so the radar is generally toward the point of entry, or so it seems. It also isn't a "smart" bulb so there's no notification.

I've got https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931 in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.

For non-security areas (Laundry), I use https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Maestro-Required-Single-Pole-MS-OPS2-WH/dp/B00L43RTSS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890519&sr=8-4&keywords=lutron+maestro+motion+sensor+switch as it has programmable sensitivity and on time, although no "smart" capability.
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dhouston

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2018, 10:34:43 AM »

In THIS case..... it's important to remember that the FCC isn't responsible for regulating microwave radiation (just like the FCC doesn't regulate microwave ovens). So.... an FCC ID would be inappropriate.
My Haier microwave oven has an FCC ID. If you look at the label (usually on the back) of yours, you'll find it has an FCC ID as well. Looks like those irresponsible feds have been at it again.  :o
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dave w

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 12:24:32 PM »

I've got https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931 in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.
This is a great (AKA genius) application! Motion sensing light and security alarm in one package (with the proper automation software). Kudos racerfern! Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.
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HA Dave

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 01:08:44 PM »

… I've got…….. in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.

For non-security areas (Laundry), I use……. as it has programmable sensitivity and on time, although no "smart" capability.

Yep. I use a dumb/non-smart motion sensing switch in the garage. The laundry (old basement) room doesn't have a suitable configuration.


This is a great (AKA genius) application! Motion sensing light and security alarm in one package (with the proper automation software). Kudos racerfern!

I've noticed that my Wink Hub (a $39 clearance item from Home Depot) has added that feature called "LookOut" now. While upgrading my Home Alarm recently... I noticed the automation/security integration is getting big right now. I am doing some of that same integration here as well. racerfern is always at the cutting edge.

Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.

It doesn't have to be that way! X10 products.... and it's users have chosen to remain disconnected.... ONLY IN RECENT YEARS/MONTHS. We had actual connected smart homes with the CM15A... before the servers were unplugged. I love real automation. Not that X10 remote control is bad... it's not. But my phone and I are practically.... leaving the phone out of the loop.... is Non-negotiable.


 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 01:10:34 PM by HA Dave »
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racerfern

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Re: Radar Detection Lighting
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 02:29:23 PM »

Quote
Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.

Why not? What's holding you back from buying a Hometroller Zee S2 which supports most X10 functions? Reasonably priced and sometimes on excellent sale prices. Supports X10 via a plug-in that's free. Ask @HA Dave. You can have your X10 cake and a new fresh cake. Note that z-wave does NOT require an internet connection, it certainly makes it more convenient but it's not essential. All my "events" are local based on the PC that runs the software. I only access some kind of cloud to send a text/email or to gather rain totals so the controller knows to turn on sprinklers or not.

https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/home-controllers/products/hometroller-zee-s2-home-controller (allows 5 plug-ins and includes software) Linux based

https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/system-interfaces/products/homeseer-z-net-remote-z-wave-plus-interface (unlimited plug-ins, but you have to buy the software) generally Windows based

Heck, you could buy a https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/system-interfaces/products/homeseer-smartstick-usb-z-wave-interface plus the software and have a very capable system.

Time marches on and we have to march with it. Otherwise, I'd still have my Commodore 64.

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