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Author Topic: What is going on???  (Read 549 times)

JBL11554

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What is going on???
« on: December 17, 2018, 02:03:01 PM »

Not sure what to make of this.  I have the new X10 wifi.  I have several lights on/off using the Dusk/Dawn timer.  I have one light that I can control (on/off) using the phone.  I have this one set with two timers which are for different days and different times.  The app shows the light is on 6:15am or 7;00am depending on the day but, it isn't.  Like I said I can turn it on/off.  I call also set the timer for 2-3 minutes from the time it is and it will turn on at the time I changed it to.  For whatever reason I can't get it to work the way I want.  I've tried deleting the on and off timers.  I even put them back in so that the off timer appears before or after the on timer.  It still doesn't want to work.  Any thoughts.

I also still have the older AHP module and this particular light worked fine with this module using the same timer parameters.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 02:06:58 PM by JBL11554 »
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Noam

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 09:40:06 PM »

Are you able to manually control the light from the app at the time you want the WM100 to control it? If not, then there might be signal interference.
However, be warned that timers won't work properly after a power interruption - until you re-sync the time from your phone. The WM100 doesn't have a battery-backed clock, and it also can't automatically reset the time off the Internet.
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LostDog88

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 10:29:49 PM »

I don't know about the WM100, but i solved my issues that were just like this with Home Genie and a CM15a.

I just simply send the command twice in my timers. On-On.....and for off Off-Off.

I am told that the XTB board that is for sale will solve these issues. I find that the problem is more likely on the longer runs. especially if I am trying to send a command to the detached garage through the phases.

The two times command helped quite a bit. Sometimes.......rarely. It don't work however. I am guessing it is noise as I have no way to test it really.

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JBL11554

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 06:49:00 AM »

SOLVED  Thanks for the responses.  In my case the answer was simple once I thought about it.  We were turning this particular light OFF using the actual light switch, so the app still showed it turned ON.  Since then I've created OFF timers in the app for every single device so this shouldn't be an issue anymore.  The funny thing with older AHP module this was never an issue since it didn't care whether the light was ON or OFF.  Thanks again  :)
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Noam

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 06:53:03 AM »

SOLVED  Thanks for the responses.  In my case the answer was simple once I thought about it.  We were turning this particular light OFF using the actual light switch, so the app still showed it turned ON.  Since then I've created OFF timers in the app for every single device so this shouldn't be an issue anymore.  The funny thing with older AHP module this was never an issue since it didn't care whether the light was ON or OFF.  Thanks again  :)
I haven't tested this (since I can't use the WM100 as anything more than a glorified remote due to its shortcomings), but are you saying that if the WM100 thinks the unit is on, it won't send another "on" command when the timer triggers (and vice-versa)? *THAT* is a huge problem, as many units (especially light switches) can manually be switched on and off without alerting the WM100 to their state change.
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JBL11554

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 09:36:54 AM »

Yep that's pretty much what I'm saying.  The new X10 wifi module doesn't know the actual real time status of any device as far as I can see unless you're using the app.  So if you turn a light ON or OFF using the wall switch or the using a remote with the older AHP module the X10 wifi module is completely clueless.  I never had this issue with the older AHP module since it really didn't seem to care what the state was.  It would be nice if the new X10 mifi module had a way to pole the devices and see what the actual state was.  But, I'm good now since I have the X10 wifi module turn everything off at 11:59pm.  The only issue that it doesn't address in my case is that I have a MS-15A sensor in our dining room so that the lights come on automatically when it sees someone.  This is not a real problem though since I have the timer set to turn off the lights after 30 minutes.  Because of this sensor, this is the only reason I'm still using the old AHP module since the X10 wifi module has no RF capability.
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Noam

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 09:45:26 AM »

Yep that's pretty much what I'm saying.  The new X10 wifi module doesn't know the actual real time status of any device as far as I can see unless you're using the app.  So if you turn a light ON or OFF using the wall switch or the using a remote with the older AHP module the X10 wifi module is completely clueless.  I never had this issue with the older AHP module since it really didn't seem to care what the state was.  It would be nice if the new X10 mifi module had a way to pole the devices and see what the actual state was.  But, I'm good now since I have the X10 wifi module turn everything off at 11:59pm.  The only issue that it doesn't address in my case is that I have a MS-15A sensor in our dining room so that the lights come on automatically when it sees someone.  This is not a real problem though since I have the timer set to turn off the lights after 30 minutes.  Because of this sensor, this is the only reason I'm still using the old AHP module since the X10 wifi module has no RF capability.
Well, that's not completely right. Except for a few two-way modules they made (and some third-party X10 compatible devices, like the ones from Smarthome), most X10 devices are one-way "dumb" units. If you switch them locally, they don't have the circuitry required to transmit that change out. And since they are one-way units, there is no way to poll them. So the issue here isn't that the controller doesn't know what state the switch is in (and if it was turned on or off using a different controller, and those signals went over the power wires, it *should* see that change) - because every other controller has/had the same problem. The issue is that if the WM100 *thinks* the device is already in the state it is supposed to change to, it won't send the command. If that's the case, that's a HUGE flaw in the design.
Now, I can tell you that when it comes to manual control, it already works this way (as does the AHP/CM15A combination). If the virtual toggle is already in the "on" position, you need to turn it off before you can turn it back on again. I suppose that could be fixed by changing the toggle to a pair of on/off buttons, but they didn't do that.
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SkipWX10

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 09:59:10 AM »

I have this issue as well but I have learned one thing...if the app is open, then it will register the change (on/off) in status of a device. I have some lights set to OFF at 11:15pm and if I am in the middle of something, I have found myself sitting with the app open anticipating the lights to go off so I can turn them back on. When the CM15a sends the OFF command at 11:15, the app registers it and changes the status to OFF, I can then touch the icon and turn the lights back on.

I guess if the app is open, it sees the PLC and registers it, and if the app is closed, it does not?

And, a different issue I have is that if a particular outside light is turned on by the wall switch, no number of taps on the ON/OFF make a difference....
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brobin

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 10:05:18 AM »

Is that particular outside light an LED bulb? If so try an incandescent bulb. A lot of LED bulbs kill X10 signals. You can either add a hash choke or try a different brand bulb. You can turn it on but once it's on it kills the signal and can't be turned off. 
Read: http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfl.pdf
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Noam

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 10:09:34 AM »

I have this issue as well but I have learned one thing...if the app is open, then it will register the change (on/off) in status of a device. I have some lights set to OFF at 11:15pm and if I am in the middle of something, I have found myself sitting with the app open anticipating the lights to go off so I can turn them back on. When the CM15a sends the OFF command at 11:15, the app registers it and changes the status to OFF, I can then touch the icon and turn the lights back on.

I guess if the app is open, it sees the PLC and registers it, and if the app is closed, it does not?

And, a different issue I have is that if a particular outside light is turned on by the wall switch, no number of taps on the ON/OFF make a difference....

I haven't done that test, but I'm pretty sure that even if the app is closed, the WM100 will register the change, *if the command is sent from the CM15A or another powerline controller*. The app isn't what stores everything - that's all done in the WM100. Otherwise, putting the app on multiple devices would be pointless, as they would all have to be open all the time for anything to ever work.

As for your second issue, I'm not sure what you're reporting. If you're saying that turning it on manually will *never* update the WM100/CM15A/AHP, then that's a matter of the hardware itself, as I explained previously. The wall switch does not have a transmitter in it, so it has no way to inform any controller that its state has changed. There are other switches out there (the ones by Smarthome - if you get the ones that still support X10 - for example) that transmit their state change when operated manually. This can have the added benefit of being able to use it as a controller for linked lights. For example, I have two switches that control my outside lights. I put them on the same HC/UC, and when I toggle one, the other one toggles too (and the CM15A and WM100 are made aware of the change, because they see the command on the powerline).
If you're saying that once the light is turned on, it cannot be turned off with the software, then brobin's answer is probably correct. The bulb is probably creating enough electrical noise to drown out the signal. Try a standard incandescent bulb, to see if the switch responds. If it does, then it is a noise issue.
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SkipWX10

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2018, 02:49:18 PM »

In response to you both, the outside light is a pair of halogen spots...every once in awhile, I'm able to use a Palm Pad to turn it off after turning on via wall switch.

If I turn it on via a PP or the WM app, I can generally turn it off via the same controller and sometimes the other....
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brobin

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2018, 05:13:52 PM »

Sounds like a signal problem. Sometimes when a bulb is nearing the end of its life it can produce noise.  An XTB-IIR would be an excellent investment and would most likely solve your signal issues.  Jeff only has a limited supply left and then there will be no more.  jvde.us is the URL.
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dave w

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Re: What is going on???
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2018, 09:03:17 PM »

The issue is that if the WM100 *thinks* the device is already in the state it is supposed to change to, it won't send the command. If that's the case, that's a HUGE flaw in the design.
WM100 has it's problems, but that isn't one of them.
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