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Author Topic: On the Bandwagon  (Read 444 times)

racerfern

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On the Bandwagon
« on: January 25, 2019, 07:55:16 PM »

Tuicemen is on to something that needs support from Authinx. There are other companies that realize the importance of a simple computer with a simple HA interface.

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petera

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2019, 09:10:45 PM »

Micasaverde have been doing that for years with the Vera Lite. . A WRT modem with a built in ZWave controller. Of course Homeseer as you know do it with a low spec RPI  too.

I've no idea why they need a built in cooling fan for the Raspberry Pi as illustrated in your picture. The RPI doesn't get hot enough to need one. Probably because it looks cooler, as in fan.
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HA Dave

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2019, 10:56:23 PM »

Tuicemen is on to something that needs support from Authinx. There are other companies that realize the importance of a simple computer with a simple HA interface.

That's what I've been posting. Although the user-created device/idea is commendable.... it isn't practical. All modern "internet devices" require management (like updates and such if nothing else). OS's and updates are best managed at centralized areas where testing can be preformed. And a centralized area can serve as a gateway for email and text sending (and more). Cloud management does offer superior service compared to mere on-line functions.

True.... the latest little Pi's can.... be beaten into providing more than enough power for basic lighting control and such. And timers, scenes, macros are the building blocks of smart Home Automation.... and has been for more than a decade.

But the general population now see's Home Automation thou the eyes of their TV commercials. Which is AI device connectivity. To get the cloud, abilities, and AI skills.... X10 needs to jump in on this project with both feet.   
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racerfern

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 05:35:37 AM »

Quote
X10 needs to jump in on this project with both feet.

Thank you for confirming my point.

I do find it interesting that HG is not listed. Of course they can't list all, but I would have thought HG had a "significant" presence.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 07:13:03 AM by racerfern »
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Tuicemen

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 09:30:26 AM »

The idea of using a SBC with a X10 controller has been put out there many times but it was always looked at as a tinkering thing with very few users.
However this is kind of what fueled the Wm100s development which realy was designed to just test the waters.
With the Pi Zero W development and seeing the Wm100 would never do what I'd hoped I pitched the idea of a SBC in a CM15A, this got Authinxs interest but I was told the research and development of it was not what they were prepared to do at the time.
It was suggested that if end users were to create a proto type device they could look at production.
Jeff has already set in a few modules for x10 reliability and seen or heard little or nothing back so I don't expect them to look at Pi controller to seriously.
I looked at several SBC to see what was inexpensive but would still suit my needs. I noticed the Zero W would fit inside a old first run CM15a so I ordered one and went about modifying the case to fit the PI. My first attempt though every thing fit and worked (and still works) was a sloppy looking affair. However I sent Authinx pictures as proof of concept, to which there was interest from the top.
I soon realized I wanted more at my off grid place then the zero W could handle so I picked up a 3B+ knowing it wouldn't work in a older cm15 I asked Authinx if there was a none working newer Cm15a that had been returned so I could experiment with. They sent me a new working unit. these have much more free space inside but still not enough room for a 3B+ it would however hold some other larger boards which I unsuccessfully played with.
Authinx was still interested in my progress :o I showed Home Genie to them explaining how easy it was to setup. which gained a peeked their interest even more
I decided to give the ZeroW another go and this time spent a little more time on putting it in a Cm15. Although it is possible to add a 5v power adaptor in a Cm15 I decided against powering from the cm15.
I began with the help of the community to create the PIX and shared that info with Authinx they were amazed that what had taken their manufacture/developers years to create was done in so short of a time frame. Since Authinx had given me a cm15 (actually 2) I asked if the owner was interested in a modified Cm15 to which they replied yes. :o I looked at adding the Zero to the cm15 without removing the battery compartment and it is possible in the newer CM15As. So this is how I created the CM15/pi combo I sent Authinx with the PXH SD image.

I don't expect to see anything come out of this as I expect they'll be showing it off to their manufacture/developer to maybe get the WM100 development moving at a quicker speed.
So although Authinx may not have gotten behind this officially they are aware and interested!

I was even asked how many users I thought would be interested in a production build of this :o
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HA Dave

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 11:15:58 AM »

.
So although Authinx may not have gotten behind this officially they are aware and interested!

I was even asked how many users I thought would be interested in a production build of this :o

I'd guess that the number of X10 users are dropping by the day. Don't forget the average X10 user isn't the "big setup" guys. And just last month (December 2018) over ONE MILLION echo devices were reportedly sold. Very few of us are buying Echo or Google devices to use with our X10. I know Brian, racerfern, myself, and some of the guys at the other [Homeseer] forums are.... but we are also reducing our X10 footprint and moving towards the newer universal WiFi protocols. And most people I read posts from are also integrating cloud services into their automation... as are the newbies.

The time to fix the problems with X10 has long passed.... as we all know... most people are just switching to the newer protocols devices. If no one at X10 can formulate a vision of a Home Automation future with X10 products at the heart of it..... they need to hire someone to find such a person.

There is NO SOLUTION or device that can FIX the X10 protocol problem. Sure... a year or two ago... a modified device, a server, and a skill listed with Amazon could have kept the old X10 PLC limping along at least long enough to empty out the warehouses full of X10 NOS. But at this point.... I'd guess Authinx spends more time looking at whole-selling stock than developing new products. But... I hope I am wrong.

I think an X10 flash-drive sized RF sender (like a CM-19 does now)…. mixed with a CM15A (that could be programed via a phone based app) might be helpful for X10 old-timers. But realistically.... paying Samsung to allow their SmartThings Hub to accept either a new RF device.... or a CM-19 and/or a CM15A would be a better, faster, smarter, solution for many reason. I understand from my Internet browsing's that such an add-on app has already been written.

Partnering with Samsung and maybe with a WiFi protocol device or bulb maker (for X10 branded WiFi devices, apps, and skills).... could put X10 back in the game.


But then again.... there might be a better profit in selling off a warehouse full of X10 devices.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 11:19:11 AM by HA Dave »
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dave w

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2019, 04:37:02 PM »

Partnering with Samsung...
But then again.... there might be a better profit in selling off a warehouse full of X10 devices.
Yeah, I don't see any manufacturer partnering with 30 year old technology.
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HA Dave

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2019, 04:51:16 PM »

Yeah, I don't see any manufacturer partnering with 30 year old technology.

I'd say.... the odds of finding a partner was better a couple years ago when I first suggested it. But again.... that's just my opinion. I am NOT suggesting that I have a vision for X10... I don't. A [product] vision isn't something anyone can just dream-up, or otherwise come up with out of nowhere. Yet... history is full of visionary entrepreneurs. Jeff Bezos, is certainly one. And I am sure he has found many similarly talented individuals to produce much of what Amazon has accomplished. X10 needs a vision. 
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Tuicemen

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 10:05:13 AM »

The fact that Authinx allows a dedicated section on their forum for the PiX10Hub shows some support for this project.
Yes, I did ask before creating the dedicated section!

As for partnering with another manufacture I also don't see that happening either.
If another manufacture wanted X10 they would have already built it in or allowed for the possibility of end users adding it (the tech isn't that difficult).
I've been using the SmartThings app to control my X10 for over a year now (no SmartThings Hub needed)
I suspect a Hub and X10 controler plugged into it would improve speed but a second here or there doesn't bother me.
If I were to pick up a Hub it would be the SmartThings one.
However as of right now the PiX10Hub does all I need with and without the cloud.
 >!
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HA Dave

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 11:16:53 PM »

……... all I need with and without the cloud.

Those kind of comments always confuse me. I know they can't be meant as literal... but then how?  Even if I had feelings... desires... to limit my use of home automations to some by-gone era of lower technologies. I wonder if I would refer to it as a "need".
 
My home was built in 1943. Today, as the day it was built, every light (in my home) can be controlled manually (with and/or without any automation). If limited to nothing more than lighting control..... home automation would be for most people, little more than an extraneous hobby. As it once was. The original X10.... was little more than a space-command clicker remote for lights.

Cloud based AI has changed all that.

I understand, not everyone has reliable broadband access. And there may be areas that don't... for years to come. And that is sad. But currently for millions and MILLIONS of the newest Home Automation users the cloud is synonymous with AI and Home Automation

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Tuicemen

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 06:41:18 AM »

... all I need with and without the cloud.

Those kind of comments always confuse me. I know they can't be meant as literal... but then how? 
There are lots of cloud based automation services available the big one that most are familiar with is IFTTT.  SmartThings also has a large developers area for this, the Voice assistants are also starting to provide some extra cloud automation and they all can work together. How one uses them in their HA setup is really limited by their imagination. However these will not currently set themselves up, though the voice assistants are getting close with things like Alexa's Hunches.
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bkenobi

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 09:56:40 AM »

... all I need with and without the cloud.

Those kind of comments always confuse me. I know they can't be meant as literal... but then how?

This may not be the project I've seen before, but it was the first on google that looked like what I've seen in the past.  There are ways to run Alexa (or other versions of the same smart speaker thingy) locally.  It's not a big deal and gets you the same capabilities but controlled on a local machine.  That's one way...

https://www.npmjs.com/package/node-red-contrib-alexa-local

If the link is too much detail, the basics are that you can run a server on a local machine that does the same thing that google's server does except without requiring a network connection.  Obviously if you wanted data from the web, err sorry...the cloud, you'd need a broadband connection. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 09:59:19 AM by bkenobi »
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HA Dave

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Re: On the Bandwagon
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 12:08:21 PM »

. There are ways to run Alexa (or other versions of the same smart speaker thingy) locally.  It's not a big deal and gets you the same capabilities but controlled on a local machine.  That's one way...

OK. I see.... you guys are thinking centralized. always the same way without alteration?  How flaky is your Internet service providers? I have back-ups to everything.... heat, electric, I've even considered drilling a well.... but that's criminal in the city here. But those things are really more prepper-like in Big City America than anything else. My utilities have less down-time.... than my own body does. I don't have to worry about my Internet failing.... any more than my electric failing.... and BOTH are more dependable than my aging back. It's just too damn bad I don't have back-up alternate methods... for my back.   

. the Voice assistants are also starting to provide some extra cloud automation and they all can work together. How one uses them in their HA setup is really limited by their imagination.

Our setups.... have always been limited only by our imaginations.... and to a lesser extent by our wallets. I don't know about Google (I need to get one of those devices).. but Amazon's Alexa does more and more weekly. Admittedly part of my long term plans for my setup involves waiting to see what Amazon develops for it's user base. The programming keeps expanding. I am about ready to add sensors as part of my system as I also experiment with geofencing and geolocation.

But as futuristic as it can seem.... my favorite part can still be things like seeing my 2 year old granddaughter stand near my Echo shouting "bear". Wanting to hear a favorite song....  the gummy bear song.
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