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Author Topic: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????  (Read 1521 times)

jaffab

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Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« on: February 06, 2019, 08:29:24 AM »

Help me board!!!!!

My x10 devices are dieing, so its time to replace the system... but what with.

Currently I have....
1) A X10 SC28X/SC9000 security control system (not connected to phone line) by Marmiteck
2) Several PIR connected to the SC9000
3) 5 or 6 x10 plug control systems
4) 2 or 3 AW12 micro switch modules for light switch controls
5) A CMU12 connected to a home server running a custom (Visual Studio) bit of software which connects the whole lot together, does house automation, connects to Alexa for voice control

But - the alarm key fobs are all going faulty, the SC9000 screen is dieing, Neither can be replaced because they are no longer produced, and I fear my love/gate relationship with X10 is finally at an end.

So.... what system is out there that I can replace that lot with?   

What is the flavour of the month here in the UK, which will cover the alarm system, device automation, light automation, and I can write my own software for to automate the whole lot?

And if its more reliable than X10, that would be good as well.

Advice would be appreciated!
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brobin

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2019, 09:01:47 AM »

Z-wave seems to have gained a lot of popularity and is probably where I'd start looking.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2019, 09:40:07 AM »

You don't need to replace the system just the parts that are failing. Since you program your own HA system I'd start with what allows that. Use the money saved from not replacing everything to make X10 more reliable.
All protocols have reliability issues even Zwave. (Which is what I'd also look at as there is lots of GitHub projects for it)

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bkenobi

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 12:24:00 PM »

IMO, if you are not interested in fixing your system then there is no reason to suggest fixing it.  My opinion is fix it if it's fixable and the cost aligns with your system.  If it's too much work or too expensive, replace it.  I don't know what you mean by "it's dying" other than it doesn't work as well as it used to.  If it's a noise type issue, that could be easy to fix for a relatively small investment.  If it's components failing, you should consider replacing it.

That said, I would consider Insteon since it's hard wired and RF (depending on module).  But, you don't have to stick with a single standard if you don't want.  There are lots of hubs these days that allow you to incorporate multiple systems into your HA setup.  You can use a combination of Insteon/X10, Z-Wave, Zigbee, WiFi (Sonoff is a good choice), etc.  I've only tinkered with these, so I'm not in a position to recommend one over another.

HA Dave

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 03:18:33 PM »

My x10 devices are dieing, so its time to replace the system... but what with.

So.... what system is out there that I can replace that lot with?   

What is the flavour of the month here in the UK, which will cover the alarm system, device automation, light automation, and I can write my own software for to automate the whole lot?

Advice would be appreciated!

Sorry to read about the terminal condition of your X10 devices. I know nothing about what systems are being used in the UK. But since you mention using Alexa... I wouldn't recommend "replacing" any system that has any age associated with it.

I had thought that X10 might be a thing of the past at one time. And when Alexa became available and iPhone added the "home" app within its OS... I wanted that new tech... that wasn't available for X10 (that I knew of) at that time. So I bought an echo, and a couple ihome devices. I then when on to experiment with other hubs and devices. I was given a Homeseer Hometroller (the Pi device). Which allowed me to control my X10 via Alexa. And I liked that.

But my system came to a place where I wanted MORE than mere control... I want AI control. So instead of just replacing this system another and giving up some things for gains with other things.... I decided to re-imagine my entire setup. After all... much of what we can do now was never possible with the old setup. So I recommend you re-think, re-invent, or re-imagine what you'd like a modern advance system to accomplish for you.... then build THAT setup.

For me... a modern setup uses a wide range of products and brands.... X10 included.
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Brian H

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 03:24:39 PM »

If you decide to try other protocols.
You are in the UK. Most of the Insteon devices are not made for the UK. Things like different RF frequencies and very limited choices of modules with the correct AC plugs and Sockets or fit into the electrical boxes in your country.
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bkenobi

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 03:28:38 PM »

Insteon didn't cross the pond?  I assumed they made it for all countries much like X10 has been.  Live and learn...

racerfern

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 03:40:58 PM »

I have a vast amount of z-wave and zigbee with just a little bit of X10. Remember, you need software that will talk to all three for a good HA system.
My z-wave controller is a z-net from Homeseer, my zigbee controller is a deConz board attached to an RPi3 and my X10 controller is a CM15A. I buy z-wave devices at quite a few different online stores, I buy my zigbee devices from aliexpress.com (search for zigbee) and I can't remember the last time I bought an X10 device.

I currently have Homeseer running on a minipc that listens to and sends commands to all three and alllows them to function as one happy system. I don't know if Homegenie will address zigbee but it will definitely address z-wave and obviously X10.

Note that zigbee devices cost substantially less, have better battery life and are physically smaller in size than their z-wave counterparts. Z-wave has a much larger selection of specialty devices, probably the largest selection of all the current protocols. Also note that z-wave devices in USA have a different frequency than UK. You could look vesternet.com for some good info on the other side of the pond.
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brobin

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 03:48:24 PM »

Insteon is a good system (that I used for a few years) for the North American market BUT it's only made and supported by a few companies.  While they've done well, the company was sold not too long ago and I don't think Insteon offers anything distinctive enough to warrant betting that it will continue to be viable long term.  On the other hand, Z-Wave (which I haven't used myself) appears to be available in most parts of the world and is supported by a large number of manufacturers with interoperability.  So, if I were starting from scratch today, as I will be in helping a friend automate his new home, I'd seriously consider it.
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Brian H

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 04:17:48 PM »

Insteon didn't cross the pond?  I assumed they made it for all countries much like X10 has been.  Live and learn...

There are some Insteon Modules made for over the pond, at one time. Though I frequently see complaints that they are hard to find and the choices of functions was limited.
I got the impression they where not pushing them much.

I also see lots of US module now being listed on the web site as Not Available. Maybe improved modules are in the works or the new owners Richmond Capital Partners is taking them in a different direction.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:19:19 PM by Brian H »
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x10wizard

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 05:54:20 PM »

Insteon didn't cross the pond?  I assumed they made it for all countries much like X10 has been.  Live and learn...

There are some Insteon Modules made for over the pond, at one time. Though I frequently see complaints that they are hard to find and the choices of functions was limited.
I got the impression they where not pushing them much.

I also see lots of US module now being listed on the web site as Not Available. Maybe improved modules are in the works or the new owners Richmond Capital Partners is taking them in a different direction.

I only count 3 Insteon modules on Smarthome.com listed as Not Available ...
2453-222 Insteon DIN Rail On/Off Switch
2443-222 Insteon Micro On/Off Switch Adapter
2475DA2 Insteon Ballast Dimmer, 0-10VDC

Hardly what I would call "lots" of modules.  I don't think the Insteon product line is going in a "different direction".
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brobin

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 08:48:53 PM »

I don't think the Insteon product line is going in a "different direction".
Well they sort of are already by dropping X10 support. :'
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x10wizard

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 11:09:13 PM »

Contrary to popular belief, most of the Insteon modules still support X10.  Especially true for the keypads, for which there is no comparable Z-Wave or Zigbee or WiFi device.

Insteon modules that support X10 (based on the owner’s manuals found on Smarthome.com)

Keypads:
2334-222 Dimmer Keypad - 8 Button - White
2334-223 Dimmer Keypad - 8 Button - Ivory
2334-225 Dimmer Keypad - 8 Button - Light Almond
2334-232 Dimmer Keypad - 6 Button - White
2334-233 Dimmer Keypad - 6 Button - Ivory
2334-235 Dimmer Keypad - 6 Button - Light Almond
2487S On/Off Keypad - 6 Button - White

Switches:
2466DW Toggle Dimmer Switch - White
2466SW Toggle On/Off Switch - White
2477S On/Off Switch - White
2477SIV On/Off Switch - Ivory
2477SLAL On/Off Switch - Light Almond
2477D Dimmer Switch - White
2477DIV Dimmer Switch - Ivory
2477DLAL Dimmer Switch - Light Almond
(note: manual for 2477D does not mention X10 support, but these still do support X10 based on bench test of recently purchased 2477D V8.2 switch)

In-Line:
2442-222 Micro Dimmer
2443-222 Micro On/Off
2444-222 Micro Open/Close
2452-222 DIN Rail Dimmer
2453-222 DIN Rail On/Off
2475DA1 In-Line Dimmer
2475SDB In-Line On/Off
2477SA2 240V 30A Relay

Outlets:
2472DWH Dimmer Outlet - White
2472DIV Dimmer Outlet - Ivory
2472DLAL Dimmer Outlet - Light Almond

Misc:
1626-10 10A Plug-In Filter
2413S Serial Modem
2413U USB Modem
2450 Plug-In Low Voltage Controller

Owner’s manuals for the following do NOT mention X10 support:
2663-222 Dual On/Off Outlet - White
2663-223 Dual On/Off Outlet - Ivory
2663-225 Dual On/Off Outlet - Light Almond
2477DH Dimmer Switch High Wattage - White

Owner’s manuals for the following specifically say X10 NOT supported:
2457D2 Plug-In Dimmer (versions prior to V3.6 do have X10 support)
2634-222 Plug-In On/Off Outdoor
2635-222 Plug-In On/Off

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dhouston

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 05:59:28 AM »

Maybe improved modules are in the works or the new owners Richmond Capital Partners is taking them in a different direction.
See...
https://www.cepro.com/article/insteon_smartlabs_acquired_ceo_powerline_home_automation_richmond_capital
However, that was written 18+ months ago.
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dhouston

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Re: Time to Replace x10 - but what with????
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 06:52:24 AM »

To return to the thread topic, I would also go with Z-Wave.
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