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Author Topic: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior  (Read 704 times)

DCUNY

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TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« on: February 20, 2019, 05:24:10 PM »

Hello everyone,

I've gotten some great help here in the past and really appreciate it.  I'm attempting to refine my setup by replacing the TM751 (which when turning on using address A1 makes a loud click) with the PAT03 which has the switch on the front for the unit code.  My understanding is if I set the unit code to 9 then there will be no click when an A1 "on" command is sent.

For context, here is a link to my original post:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30389.0

I unplugged the TM751 & plugged in the PAT03 into the same outlet where the TM751 was plugged in. 

The problem is the PAT03 is not recognizing 2 of my 3 MS16A motion sensors.  It seems like if I fuss with the antenna on the PAT03 they sometimes are recognized. 
If I unplug the PAT03 and replace it with the TM751 all 3 sensors work flawlessly.  But the loud click!!!  I'm trying to get rid of the click by using the PAT03.

What am I missing here?  Is it possible I got a defective PAT03 module?  It looked like it was new out of the box but who know. 
Is there something about the PAT03 that would cause this behavior?

Should I be trying something else to eliminate the click from the transceiver? 

Thanks in advance for your help.
Denis
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Tuicemen

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2019, 06:45:18 PM »

Setting the code dial to 9 doesn't affect the clicking in the PAT 03.
Setting the dail to code 9 means the outlet on the PAT 03 responds to the house set and unit 9 not 1
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Brian H

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2019, 07:55:43 PM »

If you set the Unit code switch  to 9 on the PAT03. It will not click the outlet switch for the outlet control if the MS16A is using the default A1. If you set the Unit Code switch to 1. Then it will click the outlets switch just like the TM751 does.

If you temporarily set the PAT03 to unit code 1. Do all three MS16A sensors control the PAT03's internal switch and clunk?
It does sound like the PAT03 maybe not as sensitive to the X10 RF signals from the MS16A sensors.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 08:00:17 PM by Brian H »
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DCUNY

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2019, 08:36:01 PM »

If you set the Unit code switch  to 9 on the PAT03. It will not click the outlet switch for the outlet control if the MS16A is using the default A1. If you set the Unit Code switch to 1. Then it will click the outlets switch just like the TM751 does.

If you temporarily set the PAT03 to unit code 1. Do all three MS16A sensors control the PAT03's internal switch and clunk?
It does sound like the PAT03 maybe not as sensitive to the X10 RF signals from the MS16A sensors.

Thanks for your response.  When I set the unit code to 1 on the PAT03 all three sensors donít switch it on.  The sensors are only about 10 feet from the PAT03 and Iím astounded it isnít working. 
I inspected the PAT03 closely and there is a piece of plastic sticking out of the case near where the antenna assmbly is located. 

Would it be better if I tried the RR501?  Maybe I have a bad PAT03...

Thanks
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Tuicemen

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2019, 08:43:20 PM »

Sorry I miss under stood the OP.
  When I set the unit code to 1 on the PAT03 all three sensors don’t switch it on.  Would it be better if I tried the RR501?  Maybe I have a bad PAT03...
I sounds like it's bad, it should have better RF then the TM751 from my understanding.
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Brian H

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 06:21:14 AM »

The X10 RR501 and X10Pro PAT01 are basically the same unit.
The PAT03 is sold as an improved PAT01. With a stronger power line transmitter and maybe better RF reception.
I also think you got a defective PAT03 and try getting it replaced.
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DCUNY

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2019, 06:58:54 AM »

Thanks to both of you for your help.  I will report back after I get the PAT03 replaced.   :(

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bkenobi

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2019, 11:25:19 AM »

If you are worried about the click when A1 is toggled because a device defaults to A1 when the battery is replaced, the easiest solution is to not use HC A...

DCUNY

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 01:13:18 PM »

If you are worried about the click when A1 is toggled because a device defaults to A1 when the battery is replaced, the easiest solution is to not use HC A...

Thanks for the message.  I want to be sure I understand what you are suggesting.

I'm using a 2450 I/O linc module to receive the commands from the MS16A sensors.  The I/O linc module is programmed to A1, momentary latch mode.  This triggers the device I'm trying to control using the I/O link normally open relay terminals.

The MS16A default to A1 when I have to replace the batteries. 

If I change the House Code on the TM751 to something other than A (such as B), would I need to reprogram the house code to B on the 3 MS16A sensors every time I replaced the batteries? My end goal is to avoid having to change the 2450 I/O linc and the the sensors in order to silence the clunk on the TM751 every time it receives an A1 command.

The relay on the PAT03 is much quieter even if it is set for unit code 1 on the slider switch.  I'm unclear if I change the House Code on the PAT03 to B, would that work for my setup without changing all of the sensors?  Speculation is I have a bad PAT03 because it won't recognize all of my sensors.

thx
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brobin

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 02:12:43 PM »

You could leave everything as is and clip the wires to the relay coil. It doesn't sound like you're using the outlet anyway. While it costs more, the WGL V572A is an excellent transceiver worth a look. http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html
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bkenobi

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 02:16:16 PM »

Yes, I think.  If your goal is to stop a default motion sensor from hammering on the relay eventually breaking it and immediately upsetting anyone around the simple solution is to adjust your modules to use a different house code than A.  You will have to change the unit code on your motion sensors when batteries are replaced anyway, so it will take an extra couple seconds to also change the house code.  You will need to change anything that is set to HC A if you change the modules (lights, outlets, etc) obviously.  But, that's a 1 time issue for changing the system compared to a permanent issue with clicking if motion sensor batteries are causing you headaches.

My personal solution is to not use any modules on A1.  I don't have any transceivers in use, so I don't have relays to worry about.

Oh, there is one other solution that hasn't been suggested but is certainly an option for the technically capable.  If you open the module, you could disable the relay.  That only works if you don't use the controlled outlet on the face of the transceiver though.

DCUNY

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2019, 03:40:12 PM »

You could leave everything as is and clip the wires to the relay coil. It doesn't sound like you're using the outlet anyway. While it costs more, the WGL V572A is an excellent transceiver worth a look. http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html

Great suggestion.  I've thought about doing that.  I haven't opened it up yet but I know what relays generally look like.  Sometime when I can take the system down for a while I just may look at that.....

I don't suppose anyone here has done that and could share some guidance?

thx again
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brobin

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 04:21:46 PM »

Look here: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=19861.0
and you can also do a search for 'disable tm751 relay'
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brobin

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 04:46:30 PM »

...also, courtesy of the wayback machine, look at this for LOTS of info on mods to the RR501/TM751.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110223190750/http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
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DCUNY

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Re: TM751 vs PAT03. I must be missing something - weird behavior
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 05:07:35 PM »

...also, courtesy of the wayback machine, look at this for LOTS of info on mods to the RR501/TM751.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110223190750/http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

Fantastic, thank you.  I had clicked on the original link in the thread and got an invalid domain message. 

Iím sure with all of this Iíll be able to recognize and disable that relay in the TM751.
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