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Author Topic: New WM100 concern  (Read 427 times)

Marauder2003

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New WM100 concern
« on: April 26, 2019, 11:05:04 AM »

Got my WM100 working late last year. Did not understand how it worked remotely without me opening ports on my router.

Now I understand. It must use HTTP over port 80 talking to a 3rd party server somewhere. If that server dies so does my remote control.

Then I read this:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/p2p-weakness-exposes-millions-of-iot-devices/

Granted, it is not a camera but who knows what nefarious things can be done through the device.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 06:16:54 AM by Marauder2003 »
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brobin

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 03:42:28 PM »

Based on the map in the article, it looks like the best defense would be to move to Greenland or Chad.  rofl
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HA Dave

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 10:38:56 PM »

....... who knows what nefarious things can be done through the device.

This is a forum of users helping users... so enlighten us. What nefarious things would you suppose could be accomplished using this device or other similar network devices?
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dave w

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 09:23:16 PM »

IoT is the hackers new field of challenge. I seriously doubt they would or could do much to the WM100. However accidently turning on a space heater or coffee maker could be disastrous.
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HA Dave

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 11:39:25 AM »

IoT is the hackers new field of challenge. I seriously doubt they would or could do much to the WM100.

I also seriously doubt anything could be accomplished by a hacker using this tech.

However accidently turning on a space heater or coffee maker could be disastrous.

There IS "that ONE Mr Coffee model" that has an On/Off switch..... which can be used with X10 for automation. But I think coffee makers were the very first "smart appliances" (and require no external automation devices). It has to be a very few people still using cheap coffee makers and appliance modules. And... I myself can't even imagine anyone using X10 on a space heater. But then again.... there isn't any warning labels on the X10 modules.

I really don't think there are many northern African/Israeli/Chinese/Eastern Europe, based hackers (where most hackers live and work) who have a desire to burn down American homes. It would be like finding a needle in a hat stack... even if there was certain Americans they wished to harm.

This is really more like worms (or Zebra) in hamburger meat. It defies adult reasoning and sober logic. 

For the average X10 user.... they could most likely improve their personal safety by walking quickly in the mall parking lot (reducing odds of robbery) or getting their blood pressure and cholesterol checked (reducing heat attack risks). Or.... if we just want silly things to worry about..... there is always Zombies, robot revolutions, and falling space debris.

Of course..... the odds of the WM100 server (or this forum) dropping off-line..... is a whole other story.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 11:43:25 AM by HA Dave »
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toasterking

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 01:59:39 PM »

And... I myself can't even imagine anyone using X10 on a space heater. But then again.... there isn't any warning labels on the X10 modules.
Though I'm completely aware of the risks, I am one of those crazy idiots (assuming there are any others) who controls his gas logs with X10.  But there are two addresses: one for "control" and one for "safety".  If "safety" is off, "control" only acts on an OFF command.  If "safety" is on, control works with OFF or ON.  They are on separate house codes and don't respond to "All On", and there are no transmitters configured for the "safety" house code other than the HA PC.  You have to know both addresses and the sequence.  And the HA PC sends both addresses OFF commands automatically when everyone leaves the house, or when everyone is in bed, or when a run-time timer elapses, or if a rise in the CO level or significant rise in temperature is detected.  But if there's a CM11A-dangling-cable style command storm, it's Russian roulette and little of this matters.  (Good thing I use an XTB-232 now.  ;))

So I'm ready for everyone to tell me what an idiot I am for doing this.
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brobin

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 03:39:59 PM »

You're not an idiot - or maybe you are and I'm one too. rofl  But at least we're careful idiots! :' I have the gas logs on an X10 switch as well but have a timeout that kills it after an hour and if the temperature in the room is or becomes 72 (as detected by the thermostat) it turns off (or won't even turn on).  It also will not turn on if the alarm system is armed in 'away' mode. The module itself is only controlled by the Stargate. The X10 command sent from a controller (or Alexa) is only a trigger command.  Here's what my program looks like (with comments):

EVENT: Fireplace Control
IF
 LR Temp is less than 72F (as displayed on the RCS t-stat connected to the Stargate)
 AND
 Alarm is NOT Armed Away (IOW someone is in the house)
 AND
 X10 N-16, N-On is received w/in 3 seconds (as opposed to just being in an on state)
THEN (if all of the three conditions above are true)
 Start Fireplace Timer (pre-defined as a 60 minute countdown)
 X10 L-7 On (fireplace module turns on)
ELSE (if either of the 1st two conditions change to false)
 X10 L-7 Off

EVENT: Fireplace Timer
IF
 Fireplace Timer Expiring
THEN
 X10 L-7 Off



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toasterking

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 04:21:31 PM »

It's crazy how similar our setups are, at least logically!  Yours has an advantage in that you use a dedicated embedded automation controller with hopefully fewer potential security and reliability faults than a PC.  And your program cuts down on accidents, but it looks like if someone plugged in a mini controller and sent L7 ON, they'd still have it on in one step.  The hardwired safety of a second module is something I won't compromise on.  I would even like to replace the "safety" module with something non-X10, controlled by a USB relay or the GPIO pin of a microcontroller.
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brobin

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 04:54:16 PM »

You're right about the possibility of someone plugging in a controller and sending L7 but there's only 2 of us in the house and it's a very remote possibility. I could easily replace the standard wall switch (which is turned off when it's not heating season) with an X10 relay switch giving me a two step process but in almost 20 years it's been OK.  As an alternative to X10 you could add a $10 WiFi switch like this: https://amzn.to/2WhYY4n
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dave w

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 05:03:26 PM »

There IS "that ONE Mr Coffee model" that has an On/Off switch..... which can be used with X10 for automation.  And... I myself can't even imagine anyone using X10 on a space heater.
We have that coffee maker. Homeseer turns it on and off with weekdays, weekends, holidays, schedule. Even have a spare in the closet, as a totally manual coffee maker is getting harder to find. And I can't get over the fun of saying "Alexa, warm up the bathroom"  and hear the 1500 watt, hot ribbon, space heater click on.
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dave w

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 05:13:04 PM »

But there are two addresses: one for "control" and one for "safety".  If "safety" is off, "control" only acts on an OFF command. 
Yep, I do the same thing. Kinda ugly with one Appliance Module plugged in to another, but it works good. Since some older Appliance Modules will false ON after a power outage followed by a dirty restoration, I have Homeseer send OFF commands to everything that was off before the outage.

However I had not though about the "All On" (I do have some old Smarthome Maxi controllers that can do All On) so am going to do a "revision" and make sure the Safety and the Control are on different house codes.

Good tip, thanks "toast" and "bro"!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 05:28:39 PM by dave w »
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toasterking

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 07:22:43 PM »

You're right about the possibility of someone plugging in a controller and sending L7 but there's only 2 of us in the house and it's a very remote possibility.
Your concern will vary greatly depending on your paranoia, but...
Do you have outlets on your front porch, garage, or patio?  Are they isolated with a filter?
Does your neighbor have outdoor outlets?  Do you have a PZZ01 or similar installed to block signals from other houses?

Or just don't make enemies and brag to them about how your HA is set up, and you won't have problems either way.  ;D
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toasterking

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 07:30:04 PM »

Yep, I do the same thing. Kinda ugly with one Appliance Module plugged in to another, but it works good.
Actually, it's a Haibrain micro appliance module, modified as a dry contact switch, inside my custom gas valve controller that disconnects the coil of the "valve open" relay.  So the modified Marmitek SW10, which thinks it's controlling a drapery motor, can still turn the gas valve's motor in the direction to close it but not the other direction to open it.  And both modules can respond to commands without one having to be on first.

But yeah, chaining appliance modules can work in other scenarios.  :)
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HA Dave

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Re: New WM100 concern
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 11:41:29 PM »

..... We have that coffee maker........ Even have a spare in the closet, as a totally manual coffee maker is getting harder to find.

We have a spare/back-up coffee maker too. But we use a combo ground-coffee and Pod-using coffee maker. Pods are a popular (and a nice) way to make coffee (or a quick hot chocolate) now-a-days. NOT that selecting the coffee-maker was ever anything I had any control over.

And I can't get over the fun of saying "Alexa, warm up the bathroom"  and hear the 1500 watt, hot ribbon, space heater click on.

I've read the previous posts and saw pretty much what I expected... safety set-ups with the space heaters and such. Thank God no one is just trusting space heaters to an X10 timer. I added a Nest thermostat.... which automates most of those functions (lots of built-in safety's) . But still reacts to voice (Alexa) commands too.

I also enjoy voice commands.... have for over a decade. But mostly I lean on automation processes for automation. I "try" to use Alexa more like a virtual robot.... or maybe "virtual companion" would be a better term. For now... Siri follows me around when I am out and about.... and Alexa waits for me to arrive home (or at least monitors my phone and calculates my home arrival time). 
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