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Author Topic: WM100 Will not turn on lamp module but TM751 Remote Transceiver will  (Read 379 times)

normd

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I have both my WM100 and a TM751 Remote Transceiver plugged into an UPS so that the WM100 will retain its program if the power fails. So far the strategy works.  However, after moving some circuits around in my main panel, the WM100 will not turn on my porch light push button switch module at all but the TM751 has no problem. Suggestions?
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Noam

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If it was working before you moved those circuits around, then it is likely an issue of signal strength and/or interference. I know there were some discussions of the signal strength of the different transmitters. If the TM751 is putting out a stronger signal than the WM100, then it could be right in that "sweet spot" where the signal from the TM751 makes it, while the one from the WM100 doesn't.

Can you move the WM100 closer (electrically, not necessarily physically) to the light switch, and test it that way? If you can put it on the same circuit, that would be be the best test. If you can't, then a circuit on the same phase (usually alternating rows in a standard breaker box), and as close to the breaker box as possible.

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normd

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Thanks for the input. It would have been nice if a "modern" device could perform as well as a legacy device. So much for that. It turns out that I had moved the porch circuit to a different leg of the panel. I swapped breakers so the porch and the WM100 are on the same leg and things are working again. I know I could have put in a bridge between legs, but the panel is already very crowded and I have a simple set-up so all is good.
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brobin

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An "out-of-panel" coupling solution would be a Smarthome 4826A (4 wire) or 4826B (3 wire). It plugs into your electric dryer outlet if you have one. You can still find them on ebay.  Of course, the gold standard for any X10 installation is the XTB-IIR from jvde.us.  At the opposite end of the spectrum, you could just put a powerline coupling rated 0.1uF, 630v polyester capacitor across the legs in the panel connected to an existing dual breaker.  Jeff has a detailed article on couplers here: http://jvde.us/x10/x10_couplers.pdf
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Brian H

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Most UPS units have power line conditioning.
They can absorb X10 signals.
Since it is on the output of the UPS. I would also check it is OK when on battery. Many UPS units have a modified or stepped AC wave. That some modules power supplies will not like. I fried a TM751 on an UPS output due to its output waveform.

The 4826A/B Dryer coupler-repeater modules are discontinued but you may find them on a auction site.
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JeffVolp

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It would have been nice if a "modern" device could perform as well as a legacy device. So much for that.

Actually, the WM100 delivers a much stronger signal than "legacy" X10 transmitters.  It has a modern high-frequency switching power supply that can deliver much more current than the inexpensive transformerless supplies used in the TM751 and many other X10 transmitters.  In a test I did it delivered about 4 times the power of an older X10 transmitter.

Your problem was due to not coupling the signal across the phases, which can result in a very weak signal on the opposite phase, regardless of how powerful the transmitter is.  And powering the WM100 from an UPS may also be seriously loading down the signal it delivers.

Jeff
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:09:55 PM by JeffVolp »
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normd

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I'd rather not use the UPS, but I don't want to not have the unit operational when I am gone and the power goes out.  I seem to recall it loses it time when it loses power.  Anyone found a solution or please correct me if I am not correct.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 08:50:54 PM by normd »
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brobin

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From what I've read on this forum since early 2018 the WM100 has a lot of "underdevelopment" issues like losing the time after a power outage, lack of Alexa integration, DST errors, dawn/dusk timing errors, handling only one location and others.  Tuicemen has done a truly remarkable job developing the PiX10Hub running HomeGenie but for many, including myself, it's a bigger undertaking than desired.  A lot of folks here would just be thrilled if the WM100 met its promises.  But I don't think anybody's holding their breath!

There is a very viable and stable alternative that I've been working with since early March called the Smartenit Harmony Hub in three flavors; P2, G1 & G2.  All three require an Insteon PLM (2412U or 2413U) for X10 control.  In addition to X10 they support Insteon and ZigBee devices and can send email and text messages.  Details can be found at:  https://smartenit.com/product-category/gateways-hubs/

In short, these devices have good apps for Android and IOS as well as a web app.  It gets clock time from the internet and computes specific lat/long for your address for dawn/dusk.  A single app supports multiple locations/homes.  It has an Alexa skill that works as it should.  I installed mine the week before the 'spring forward' DST change and it executed correctly.  I did have a couple of issues regarding adding devices but in both cases a firmware update solution was available within 24 hours of reporting with an instant workaround for one of them. Excellent support!

The website describes the differences between the units but they all use the same app and firmware. 
The P2 is Ethernet only and has a Zigbee Radio built in; the G1 requires an external ZigBee radio if desired, has a dual core processor and has both Wifi and Ethernet; the G2 is like the G1 but does have built in ZigBee and a 4 core processor.

I have both a G2 and a P2 running successfully for two locations.  For relief from the frustration of the WM100's shortcomings have a look!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 12:19:19 PM by brobin »
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Tuicemen

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First off the WM100 is a Wi-Fi to powerline device no RF the TM751 is Rf to powerline no Wi-Fi  if your using a RF remote to send a signal the WM100 will not repeat a plc another device is sending.
Although the WM100 does lose its time on a power outage it doesnt lose its configuration all settings are maintained except time. Connecting to a phone will resync the time but that is a pain and you need to know that you had a power loss. Many do use the WM100 connected to a UPS without issues but they do degrade the plc output as Jeff mentuoned.

Glad to see you have things back working.
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normd

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Tuicemen:

Thanks for the clarification. I am using a RF remote for the TM751 and my iPhone/iPad for the WM100. I just have them both plugged into my UPS device for convenience with the TM751 on the protected side and not on the UPS side but the WM-100 on the UPS side. That may explain the ability for the TM751 to send a stonger signal across both legs vs. the WM100 on the battery side and a inherently weaker signal because of that. Putting the porch light on the same leg as the other X-10 devices solved my problem.

Thanks to everyone for explaining these nuances to me.

I am still stunned that X-10 does not have a provision to save the time after a power failure but can save the programming. At least dawn/disk is working.  Still, I will not recommend this unit to a potential buyer. The UPS may degrade the signal, but the time setting does not get lost and signal controls work, so I'll live with it for now. The Smartenit Harmony Hub dies look interesting.
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Tuicemen

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Re: WM100 Will not turn on lamp module but TM751 Remote Transceiver will
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 11:27:36 AM »

There may be another way to solve the time issue but it would require an old phone or tablet to be plugged inalways powered an the WiFi app to be running. I did some testing this way at one point to see if the time error notification popped up with an older version and it auto did sync the time without input being required. Also in my test this way the WM100 was only disconnected briefly a prolonged outage may not yeild the same result. My original thinking was to use my always running android TV box but then realized it had no camera. B:(
However this may still be possible with a camera addon.
L
As brobin pointed out the PiX10Hub has none of the issues the WM100 does and I've moved to using a $5  RPi board to control all my HA . I continue to try and make setup of the PiX10Hub as simple as possible. I believe most if not all that attempt the PiX10Hub route now are satisfied withe its performace.
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