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Author Topic: Midnight Commander  (Read 282 times)

racerfern

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 04:30:10 PM »

Quote
May be not publicly.
However I have gotten a lot of feed back from encouraged users, they just refuse to post due to negative feed back and old time Linux attitudes.
Negative feed back definitely doesn't encourage any one and is the best way to kill any project.

This is probably the most important piece of this entire conversation. As soon as someone types Windoze, you know the attitude comes next.
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racerfern

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2020, 04:39:06 PM »

I remember being way ahead of the curve with a 300 baud modem on my C64 dialed in to a hookup at Southern Conn State College, which sent the info to the mainframe at UConn, it ran the program, sent it back and the results ended up on my C64 as a text file.

I had a line of students at my door since they didn't have to wait for the punch cards and results to print on a line printer.

I never got the program to run the way it should have, so I edited the text file to make it look right. The teacher knew something was wrong but he didn't have the time to drill into hundreds of lines of code to try and prove I was wrong. True story.


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Tuicemen

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2020, 04:42:46 PM »

It realy is about personal preference. I hate using the command line (always have). I'm a old 2 finger typer  ::) :' hotkeys and using the mouse speeds up the time require for me to get things done.
I don't demand users do things my way and me stating I was going to add this may have came across that way, this wasn't my intention. I also didn't mean to imply typing in a command was worse then a point and click solution. MC allows the best of both worlds that may be why I like it.
It should be noted this doesn't affect HG operations unless maybe someone is using this while someone else is attempting to do things in HG, your still in the CLI.
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racerfern

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 04:52:02 PM »

Quote
I recommended that it would be better to use a RPi3 a couple years ago over the Zero but others indicated that the cost was king.

I don't see where cost should have anything to do with it. An Rpi3 b+ is +/-$52 and the zero is maybe half of that. Someone wanting to run a nice HA system had better not fret over $26.

I own 3 RPi, one for my zigbee board, two z-wave boards and I'm about to buy a 4th one to setup a simple HA for my son, though I'm also considering a Lenovo mini pc for about $200 which will be far more powerful than an RPi
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brobin

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 05:16:26 PM »

@brobin - PUNCH CARDS!! Programming on a PDP-8?

It was a DEC PDP something, whatever was au courant in 1967. We never actually saw it. The math teacher would schlep boxes of IBM (Hollerith) cards to a computer center downtown after school and pick up the greenbar printouts and the boxes the next morning. Basically he was a living modem!  rofl  In my senior year the cards were replaced with reels of yellow paper tape mostly to save his back.  About six years later, after I had started a telecommunications consulting firm, I actually found a practical use for my FORTRAN IV skills in developing a program to read phone company billing tapes and simulate the proper mix of WATS lines to save companies $$ and provide the best level of service.  At that point I was using a 110 baud shoebox size modem to connect to a DEC PDP 10 with a 10 CPS teletype machine (with a real bell!).  I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I upgraded to a 1200 baud Teletype with an internal modem. When I wanted to load the data on the 9 track tapes from the phone company I'd type something like "Mount volume xyz123" and that would ring an actual bell at the computer center alerting the attendant to find the tape, mount it and thread it on the machine.  10-15 minutes later he'd send a message back to let me know it was mounted.  I'd then run my programs and see the results in as quickly as a few minutes or as long as 6 hours depending on the amount of data being loaded and crunched.  There were no CRT screens, everything was on paper.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 05:23:02 PM »

At the time of development the Zero W was $5 US the 3B+ had just been released maybe $35-$45 less case and power supply it. Since it was a proof of concept, it was easier to convince potential testers to part with $5.
We also needed everyone involved to be using the same board.

I use an old Asus Mini eebox PC with Debian Bullseye for my city HG and it is lightning fast since it is using a Alfa OS build I also have the setup on a ZeroW running Buster and one on a Zero W running Stretch (which I use to create HG programs and widgets and test other OS adds).

I noticed the other day Debian has already started work on BookWorm even though Bullseye is still in testing.
There were no CRT screens, everything was on paper.
Maybe we should just make the newbie use paper or punch cards since a mouse with the CLI seems to be taboo.  rofl
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racerfern

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2020, 05:40:06 PM »

I still remember the sunken feeling of feeding hundreds of punch cards and getting a result back on the line printer:

"Syntax error, line 452....." or whatever the verbiage was back then. Then you had to load the whole thing again. No wonder most of us love GUIs
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LostDog88

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2020, 06:30:56 PM »

Quote
May be not publicly.
However I have gotten a lot of feed back from encouraged users, they just refuse to post due to negative feed back and old time Linux attitudes.
Negative feed back definitely doesn't encourage any one and is the best way to kill any project.

This is probably the most important piece of this entire conversation. As soon as someone types Windoze, you know the attitude comes next.

Absolutely. Like some elitist that can do something fancy because (s)he had the time to figure it out. I am sure never asking any questions.
'Course, I always wonder how (s)he would do programming a Nortel Option 81 with about 200 DID's and a call center with 200 mailboxes!!  rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
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LostDog88

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2020, 09:09:20 PM »

Many users actually shied away from dos and/or never even looked a PC until windows came out.
Midnight commander doesn't stop users from learning Linux (which you seem to push so hard for) it makes navigation of the OS much easier.
Except the hardest part of DOS was typing the begining of a filename that was an executable. Let's be honest. Typing SIMCITY into a screen to start a game wasn't really a challenge. Linux ain't that easy. No matter what you say, it ain't. Simple maybe. Easy as DOS. Please let's just be honest with ourselves here.
Maybe you had to free up some memory and create a batch file, but most folks would help you. Or a batch file came with the program. Again. Easy.


Quote
This is all about users lack of desire to bother learning or researching the product when you are handing it all to them. There's no motivation for anyone to get off their ass and contribute as a result.
No....Users are afraid to ask questions, mostly because elitiest ridicule them and slam them for not doing research. Personally I try to research all I can. I then dread asking questions knowing I will be slammed and ridiculed because I am not in the know. End result. I just don't ask. How can I learn. Some will constantly harp that it is in the document. Again. let's be honest. Not one damn bit of this is in the document. It ain't documented. But some will claim it is. But it ain't. If it was......................
I look for other software that is easier. The main reason I don't use homeseer is it sucked to set up.
 
Quote
May be not publicly.
However I have gotten a lot of feed back from encouraged users, they just refuse to post due to negative feed back and old time Linux attitudes.
Negative feed back definitely doesn't encourage any one and is the best way to kill any project.
Absolutely the truest statement on the internet today. Negative feedback kills anything and everything. Think about it. How many companies have failed because they misstepped the customer?

edited by Tuicemen to fix Quotes( Readability)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:31:11 AM by Tuicemen »
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dave w

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Re: Midnight Commander
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2020, 06:31:46 PM »


It was a DEC PDP something, whatever was au courant in 1967.
Likely an 8. The 11 did not come out until 1970. Brings back memories of flippin address and data switches just to get it to read the paper tape boot loader, then using a Teletype console for I/O. 5 k of core memory. Fun days.
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