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Author Topic: HomeGenie and CM15-Using x10 security sensors and X10 standard sensors together  (Read 184 times)

petera

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Just trying to get feedback from anyone with a similar setup to the above. Are you experiencing any problems with your CM15 locking up due to it being flooded with RF traffic. If you introduce the standard X10 sensor into a setup with only X10 security sensors you may experience this problem.I may have discovered a bug in the X10 driver but before I take this any further I'd like to see if any others are experiencing symptoms I've outlined above.
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Tuicemen

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I never had good success with the standard x10 battery operated motion sensors. I do have 2  x10 motion sencing flood lights in operation that work fine.  I switched to using the security battery motion sensors years ago and not looked back.I don't  recall any lock ups due to RF. I did experiace lock ups using a PLC repeater during beta testing of the PLC repeater module.
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petera

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I never had good success with the standard x10 battery operated motion sensors. I do have 2  x10 motion sencing flood lights in operation that work fine.  I switched to using the security battery motion sensors years ago and not looked back.I don't  recall any lock ups due to RF. I did experiace lock ups using a PLC repeater during beta testing of the PLC repeater module.

I got delivery of an eBay X10 goodie bag and included were a number of X10 standard motion sensors. Loaded them up and they just locked up the CM15 working with the X10 security sensors. Tried the same setup with a CM19 and not a problem. Both type of sensors working fine together. I've looked at the driver and think I've located the problem. I'll try recompiling it at some stage to see if it now works. Unlike the security sensor the standard sensor had a predefined house/unit code which it transmits which is completely unnecessary in HG and probably the RF to PLC conversion is causing the lockup. That would probably account for why it's not happening with the CM19 controller. Early days. I've given up posting issues on the GitHub. Waste of time.
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petera

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With a few minor mods to the CM19 RF Send feature both sensor types are working together in the same setup. A few C# automation scripts has enabled me to extend the usability of basic motion sensors in conjunction with the security motion sensors. Using the basic sensors as momentary sensors gives a better range of photos on tripping and of course the basic motion sensor has a better range of adjustment as far as night/day activation is concerned.No lockups to deal with either.  :)%
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dhouston

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...probably the RF to PLC conversion is causing the lockup.
It has been many years since I played with X10 RF but...

There are minimal differences between standard and security RF signals. These differences are noted at... https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf.html

Most X10 RF devices send 5 or more copies of the code. X10 RF-to-PLC transceivers start transmitting PLC as soon as they have decoded a valid RF code and ignore any further incoming RF while transmitting PLC.

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petera

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...probably the RF to PLC conversion is causing the lockup.
It has been many years since I played with X10 RF but...

There are minimal differences between standard and security RF signals. These differences are noted at... https://www.laser.com/dhouston/rf.html

Most X10 RF devices send 5 or more copies of the code. X10 RF-to-PLC transceivers start transmitting PLC as soon as they have decoded a valid RF code and ignore any further incoming RF while transmitting PLC.

Nice to hear from you Dave and thanks for taking the time to comment.

Yes the additional code transmitted by the security motion sensor is quite visible. The standard motion sensor is definitely more versatile though. There's nothing other than sensitivity that be adjusted on the security motion sensor so having the ability to adjust for night/day and on/off time is certainly a benefit.

I set the standard motion sensor to toggle via software so I can record momentary trips and I can override the minimum On state of one minute.

I've no real need for the House Code/Unit Code feature on the standard motion sensor so I'm wondering if I can disable this feature physically or if I can strip out this code between broadcast and receive.

Interestingly on a security console you can trick the console into revealing it's set of five RF codes for each of the allowable remotes you can enrol on the system. 
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dhouston

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In my (years ago) testing the only lockups were caused by multiple (supposedly polite) PLC transmitters colliding on the powerline.

I don't believe there's any way short of reprogramming the microcontroller in the sensor to eliminate the House/Unit codes. Similarly, you would need to reprogram whatever device receives the RF codes.

I have PicBasic code for both transmitters and receivers at...https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT
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petera

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In my (years ago) testing the only lockups were caused by multiple (supposedly polite) PLC transmitters colliding on the powerline.

I don't believe there's any way short of reprogramming the microcontroller in the sensor to eliminate the House/Unit codes. Similarly, you would need to reprogram whatever device receives the RF codes.

I have PicBasic code for both transmitters and receivers at...https://www.laser.com/dhouston/PIC-RX-TX.TXT

I found that ditching the CM15 in favour of the CM19 and a transceiver has given more reliable results on the Raspberry Pi using the many available automation software options and the various sensors available both standard and security are working more reliably together.

I didn't think that disabling the HC/UC on the standard sensor at hardware would be easy. I'll work on a software solution for that. I'll have a little look at your PicBasic code. Thanks for link.

Anyway everything is working fine now on a Raspberry Pi Zero W with a decent power supply to cover the overhead required to power the CM19. It's looking more like manufacturers of X10 433mhz sensors have abandoned production so it's down to the the likes of eBay for sourcing replacement parts.
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dhouston

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It's looking more like manufacturers of X10 433mhz sensors have abandoned production so it's down to the the likes of eBay for sourcing replacement parts.
Europe limits PLC amplitude to 2.5Vpp which is probably why the market for X10 products dried up. In addition, the limits on 433MHz RF are much more lenient than what we have in N. America creating a market for direct RF control of lights, etc.
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This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No twees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

petera

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It's looking more like manufacturers of X10 433mhz sensors have abandoned production so it's down to the the likes of eBay for sourcing replacement parts.
Europe limits PLC amplitude to 2.5Vpp which is probably why the market for X10 products dried up. In addition, the limits on 433MHz RF are much more lenient than what we have in N. America creating a market for direct RF control of lights, etc.

Yes I could make up a 433 mhz sensor/transmitter cheaply enough but as I've so many X10 motion sensors lying about after an eBay purchase I thought I could use them in the setup. So far so good.

Love hearing about the technical side of X10. So little of it discussed here anymore. Particularly DIY projects stuff.
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