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Author Topic: MS18 or MS12  (Read 342 times)

dave w

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MS18 or MS12
« on: June 07, 2020, 05:46:41 PM »

I have a number of X10 motion detectors (MS12 and MS13s) and have been happy with their performance. I just bought two of the X10 MS18 Security Sensors. I have one of the MS18 and a MS12 in the same vision field and am comparing response. still early in the testing and their performance seems similar.

Am wondering if any forum members have experience with both units and want to share.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2020, 08:43:57 PM »

I can only share experience of standard motion v security motion as I'm in the 433mhz world. I found the following:

1. Range of RX/TX to be fairly similar for both.
2  Physically the standard motion is more versatile. The only adjustment that can be made on the              security motion is sensitivity. You know the adjustments that can be made the standard sensor. Much better for night/day automation selection.
3. The standard sensor plays no part with a security panel setup.
4. I had to ditch the CM15 in favour of the CM19 as I was experiencing lock ups when using both types of sensors. Again that may be down to the CM15 (Euro model) owing to PL/RF being broadcast simultaneously.

For me, the standard motion is a much cheaper option. I can compensate for the shortfalls in either sensor via software so other than cost it really is either/either. What X10 controller and software are you using with your setup.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2020, 09:22:55 PM »

Thanks for the feedback!
I am using the WGL "W800 USB receiver" http://www.wgldesigns.com/w800.html.
and Homeseer HS3 for automation software.

The W800 talks both X10 Motion and X10 Security. Security heartbeat is not used. so mainly I am comparing sensitivity in movement detection and  falseing. The motion sensor I am using now (MS13) does a lot of falsing from shadow movement.
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Tuicemen

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2020, 07:15:56 AM »

I moved to using all security motion sensors many years back do to falsing
Authinix I'm told has improved both the sensors. I have no experiance with the newer motion sensors so I'm following this thread closely.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 08:23:38 AM »

I have a number of X10 motion detectors (MS12 and MS13s) and have been happy with their performance. I just bought two of the X10 MS18 Security Sensors. I have one of the MS18 and a MS12 in the same vision field and am comparing response. still early in the testing and their performance seems similar.

Am wondering if any forum members have experience with both units and want to share.

Aha. I thought your post looked familiar. I do a bit of work for the folks at HomeSeer and thought your post looked familiar. https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/lighting-primary-technology-plug-ins/lighting-primary-technology-discussion/x10-homeseer/1390060-x10-security-sensor-ownership-clarification

As luck would have it HomeGenie has W800RF support built in unlike HomeSeer. If you havenít tried HomeGenie yet it might be worth your while. When it comes X10 HomeSeer struggles a little with X10 with the exception of the CM11 which is rock solid. Mark Fisher is doing a fantastic job supporting the technology outside of the official HomeSeer support network.

It might be worth your while setting up HomeGenie to test your W800 setup.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 09:10:36 PM »

Aha. I thought your post looked familiar. I do a bit of work for the folks at HomeSeer and thought your post looked familiar. https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/lighting-primary-technology-plug-ins/lighting-primary-technology-discussion/x10-homeseer/1390060-x10-security-sensor-ownership-clarification
It might be worth your while setting up HomeGenie to test your W800 setup.
Yep, tis me.

I have thought of dipping into HG many times because HomeSeer Technologies has forgot that X10 gave them their start. There is almost no support from HST for X10 customers, other than liking our money. But that is the main reason I have not stuck toe in the HG tub. Have had Homeseer since HS2.0. Have HS3 and HS4 (don't go there, HS4 is way not ready for prime time, plus I really dislike the new GUI ) and I invested money and a year in HS Designer for making custom screens for tablet use around the house. Too much money and time in the Homeseer money pit.  If HS4 ever actually gets out of beta, once I get it up and running, I may look at HG again because HS4 is ugly, ugly, ugly. PS Yes Mark fisher is doing wonders. I hope rjh realizes it.

I see racerfern is another HS beta guy.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 09:20:46 PM »

I moved to using all security motion sensors many years back do to falsing
Authinix I'm told has improved both the sensors. I have no experiance with the newer motion sensors so I'm following this thread closely.
The two I bought came from eBay so I am not sure if they are the "New Improved!" models or not. I have taken both apart to convert to lithium and remember the op amp is the old metal tabbed can. Looks like a button battery. So suspect I have the old design as all their other updated modules seem to be SMD components, not TTB (thru-the-board). If Authinx has improved, I may have to try. All the MS12s and MS13s I have indoors are working well. The outside ones are the falsies.   :'
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Brian H

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2020, 06:38:40 AM »

The MS18A is surface mounted components. Has a SAW frequency determining component and PCB run etched transmitting antenna.

X10WTI used the Radio Shack 49-1003 Security Console Motion Sensor they did for Radio Shack. For the FCC information.

Their 49-1000 Security Console Kit is what the SC1200 Security Console and accessories are based on.

The FCC Database has the schematic, parts list and other photos of the MS17A/MS18A.

FCC B4S-MS17A.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2020, 07:39:46 AM »

I moved to using all security motion sensors many years back do to falsing
Authinix I'm told has improved both the sensors. I have no experiance with the newer motion sensors so I'm following this thread closely.
The two I bought came from eBay so I am not sure if they are the "New Improved!" models or not. I have taken both apart to convert to lithium and remember the op amp is the old metal tabbed can. Looks like a button battery. So suspect I have the old design as all their other updated modules seem to be SMD components, not TTB (thru-the-board). If Authinx has improved, I may have to try. All the MS12s and MS13s I have indoors are working well. The outside ones are the falsies.   :'

Just addressing your external standard motion sensors, have you tried to reduce their field of view by focussing them more on the target area. This can be achieved manually by constructing a housing with a flap, similar to the peak on a peaked cap and pointing the sensor as downwards as possible which would eliminate much of the environmental movement experienced outdoors. If the sensor can't see it it can't react to it.

Again of all the software that supports X10 I've tried and I've tried most of them, HomeGenie appears to be the most robust of all. The fact that it includes support by way of a MIG (plugin in HomeSeer speak) for W800RF leads me to think you could solve a lot of your issues trying this option.

HomeGenie lacks support for a lot of the newer technologies but when it comes to X10 there's few if any that beat it. I'm assuming you are running HomeSeer on the MS Windows platform so setting up HomeGenie on a Raspberry Pi separately won't affect your current Windows machine.

I'd really love to see the results you'd get running X10 via HomeGenie with the W800RF. I've tried the CM11, CM15 and CM19 all with excellent results but don't own a W800RF to try.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 09:29:25 AM »

Just addressing your external standard motion sensors, have you tried to reduce their field of view by focussing them more on the target area.

I'd really love to see the results you'd get running X10 via HomeGenie with the W800RF. I've tried the CM11, CM15 and CM19 all with excellent results but don't own a W800RF to try.
Yes. I had taped a simple visor on top of the old MS13, which helped, but did not eliminate. I have one of the MS18s out there now and it has made an improvement. Based on Brian H's information I have the old version, so think I will order a new version from Authinx since they say it is improved.

So are you throwing down the gauntlet?  rofl
I may do it but would have to dedicate the W800 to HG, so would be an exercise where I am willing to drop HS. (May happen unless HS4 has some great new features.) Trouble is I have 157 devices and 124 events to reconstruct in HG. Truthfully, as an old geezer, my motivation is waning, although HS4 may ramp it up.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2020, 10:26:48 AM »

Just addressing your external standard motion sensors, have you tried to reduce their field of view by focussing them more on the target area.

I'd really love to see the results you'd get running X10 via HomeGenie with the W800RF. I've tried the CM11, CM15 and CM19 all with excellent results but don't own a W800RF to try.

So are you throwing down the gauntlet?  rofl
I may do it but would have to dedicate the W800 to HG, so would be an exercise where I am willing to drop HS. (May happen unless HS4 has some great new features.) Trouble is I have 157 devices and 124 events to reconstruct in HG. Truthfully, as an old geezer, my motivation is waning, although HS4 may ramp it up.

Don't get me started on age  rofl No excuse!!!!!. In fact age and retirement is the best time to embark on a hobby like this.

No need to migrate anything from HS to HG yet. A Raspberry Pi,a simple installation of HG on an SD card is all that is required. When that is done all that is needed in HG is to create two widgets(devices in HS speak) one for your motion sensor and one for you light, plug your W800RF into the USB port, install the W800RF MIG(plugin in HS speak) and you're good to go.You can then test the W800RF and standard motion sensor's efficiency.If you like what you see you then have choices.

Adding 157 additional can be done gradually while HS is still working away.In fact both systems can work in parallel. In fact you can actually off load the X10 responsibility to HG which can do all the hard work and pass the results back to HS.Spoiled for choice  :)%

I won't get into the nuts and bolts of HomeSeer here as I'm purely discussing X10 but from what I'm seeing HomeSeer is becoming over bloated and performance is suffering as a result.Style over substance seems to be the order of the day and do bear in mind that X10 is not officially supported and if Mark decides to walk there's few who will pick up the X10 support baton.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2020, 12:47:45 PM »

Oh, gee whiz. I'm getting beat up here.

Soooo I think one of you HG/Arduino experts should spring for a W800. Has three times the reception of the CM15, even with hacked antenna. <wink>

I think I have HG on my Homeseer computer. I will play with it, but what are you looking for with regard to the W800?

AFA rasberries and Arduino, that sounds like a winter project.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2020, 01:57:47 PM »

Oh, gee whiz. I'm getting beat up here.

Soooo I think one of you HG/Arduino experts should spring for a W800. Has three times the reception of the CM15, even with hacked antenna. <wink>

I think I have HG on my Homeseer computer. I will play with it, but what are you looking for with regard to the W800?

AFA rasberries and Arduino, that sounds like a winter project.

Don't attempt to run HG on your HS computer or you will spend the next life sorting it out.Different X10 drivers and libraries.My suggestion is based around a Raspberry Pi and before you say the words you don't need a science degree to set it up.Yes a winter project so get buying the kit now  rofl.

Only that the W800 would be so expensive for me to purchase and ship I'd have one tomorrow.I still might get one though.Ways and means but as I mentioned earlier I don't have reception issues. I really do recommend doing justice to you're W800 by squeezing the best out of it via today's technology.

Have you had to purchase an additional HS plugin to avail of X10 RF.The cost of one of those plugins is nearly equal to the cost of a Raspberry Pi.
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dave w

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2020, 09:29:10 AM »


Don't attempt to run HG on your HS computer or you will spend the next life sorting it out.

Have you had to purchase an additional HS plugin to avail of X10 RF.The cost of one of those plugins is nearly equal to the cost of a Raspberry Pi.
So I can't run HG and HS on the same computer (not at the same time of course)?

Many of the Homeseer  plug-ins are free. I am using several free ones and they are good.  Plug-in for: HS/computer shutdown and reboot, UPS driven shutdown of HS/computer with UPS stats via email, auto back-up of HS database or folder or any other files/folders, WGL W800  RF interface, CM11 and CM15 interfaces.

There is well over 200 Plug-ins available for HS and about a third are free.
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petera

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Re: MS18 or MS12
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2020, 09:58:12 AM »


Don't attempt to run HG on your HS computer or you will spend the next life sorting it out.

Have you had to purchase an additional HS plugin to avail of X10 RF.The cost of one of those plugins is nearly equal to the cost of a Raspberry Pi.
So I can't run HG and HS on the same computer (not at the same time of course)?

Many of the Homeseer  plug-ins are free. I am using several free ones and they are good.  Plug-in for: HS/computer shutdown and reboot, UPS driven shutdown of HS/computer with UPS stats via email, auto back-up of HS database or folder or any other files/folders, WGL W800  RF interface, CM11 and CM15 interfaces.

There is well over 200 Plug-ins available for HS and about a third are free.

Indeed they are but the RF plugin you require isnít.

Simply put you canít run HS and HG simultaneously on the same computer. You can of course run HG on a simple setup like a Raspberry Pi and plug your W800 in and the skies the limit. The investment in a setup like this is minimal and youíll be pleasantly surprised at the results. Something to consider in the coming months. Let me know if you decide to go ahead with this and I can get you on track.
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