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Author Topic: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver  (Read 9417 times)

tcassio

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Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« on: April 16, 2005, 10:09:09 AM »

To All,
There seems to be a serious problem with
the CM15A and motion sensor traffic. Here
is what I discovered.  Whenever there is MS
activity, PLC commands slows to a crawl and
in some instances PLC commands are lost.

Because of all the problems with the CM15A
I purchased A Smarthome 1132 CU, and was
using the CM15A as a whole house
transceiver.  I still had strange
problems.  Here is the configuration used
to diagnose the problem.

1132 CUP as my controller;
CM15A as my transceiver set to monitor
housecodes B & C;
1 TM751 set to monitor housecode M (for my
motion sensors);
Smarthome phase coupler/repeater;
several Smarthome 5amp filters.

I have a macro setup to turn on 2 lm465's
and dim to 50% The macro is triggered by
HR12A.

Here are the problems.

When triggering the macro, it would only
work about 50% of the time.  The other 50%
of the time the problems would vary.  Some
time it would take between 5 to 10 seconds
for the lights to come on, and when they
did some times only 1 light would come on
and not the other.  Other times they would
not come on at all.  Other times the lights
would cycle on and dim twice.  I noticed
that when it didn't work properly there was
MS activity.

Then I eliminated the CM15A from the
equation and used a couple TM751's as my
tranceivers.  And the macro worked 100% of
the time.

This could explain why things installations
using MS are having intermitten problems.

Hopes this helps.
T.
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SteveRF

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2005, 05:34:19 PM »

Sounds like you have finally got your system
up, running and stable. Now you can chunk
your CM15A and carry on.  Maybe one day the
CM15A+ will arrive and all of us "die hards"
will have the same satisfaction.  I'll keep
watching for a similar forum on the smarthome
web site so we can see how it is going. All I
have found so far was a well regimented
stached Q and A. Good Luck withyour new stuff.
SteveRF
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Observer

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2005, 07:31:35 PM »

Steve RF:  Please don't hold your breath (we
wouldnít want to lose you) for a reliably
working CM15A+.  X-10 has demonstrated that
it can't resist premature releases.

Carmine:  Thank you for sharing the
information.  It is appreciated.
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joe s.

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2005, 09:50:49 PM »

TCassio, I went the reverse method - and
removed my TM751 altogether due to (what
seemed to be) incompatibility between the two
devices, as you have indicated (I consume too
many addresses and didn't have three TM751's).
My CM15a transceiver-only/Smarthome 1132CU
combination seems to work OK this way - but
I'm still tempted to add V572AB and toss the
CM15a altogether 'cause range with a
stretched CM15a antenna is "just-OK"...and
the double-dimming "feature" of CM15a is
inconvenient at times.  
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2005, 12:23:53 AM »

Tcassio

I originally suggested to you to use the
CM15a as all house transceiver, it appeared
to work Ok, after a couple of days I gave
Up, I got an RMA and returned for  refund.
As I tried to explain on another link
(ATTENTION: Good batch of CM15A's!!) the
biggest problem with CM15a is RF, and is
caused by firmware, I have confirmation
that X10 are not using GPIO interrupt,
because of the chip hardware bug, the
processor can not handle all the traffic in
polled  mode.
Ironic the RF receiver chip is rated at
100meter open air, but this is only good if
the CM15a could handle the traffic.
I currently using my old transceiver I was
using with CM11a, the TM51 and rr501(very
old).
Smarthome has excellent all house code
transceivers but they need Powerlinc II or
X10 TW523; I will probably purchase it in
the near future with the powerlinc II; the
X10 TW523 has problems with multiple dim
(surprise, surprise).
No amount of lemon aid can fix the current
CM15a, the microntroller is too slow for
the job, and because X10 is trying hard to
find a solution to get around the GPIO bug
in the chip, the code runís even slower.
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Observer

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2005, 07:27:11 PM »

Carmine:  The answer is removing the high-
speed stuff from the CM15A.  George P.
(Thread = ATTENTION: Good batch of
CM15A's!!)  appears to have done so
successfully by replacing all the RF with a
WGL & Associates V572AB.   If this really
works all X-10 has to do is as Helpful Hints
has asked to add a V572AB to modules under
Other in AHP and auto disable RF for CM15A
when that is selected.  What do you think?
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georgep

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2005, 07:56:15 PM »

Tcassio: You indicated in your post in the
thread "ATTENTION: Good batch of
CM15A's!!)  that you have a V572AB in your
configuration, but you didn't mention it
here. Did you recently add it to solve your
RF issue? That's what did it for me.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2005, 10:38:58 PM »

Observer
With the current product disabling RF is
the best choice.
If this was my project, I would replace the
current processor with the CY8C24794(else
Cypress Part), this device has I2C hardware
interface for external memory ( currently
they are Bit Banging, and is very processor
intensive. The RF portion is fine, but with
this chip they could build a custom UART
eliminating more overhead.
It has 4 digital blocks :( you can make
DACís, ADC , counters , timer or UART,
And 6 blocks of analog modules : you can
make PGA , instrumentation amplifiers, band
pass filters, low pas filters and many
more; configuration can be changed on the
fly.
While at it they could offer the CM15new
with internal hardware clock, or for a
premium price an external battery back up
clock using the same control lines used for
the memory(I2C protocol allow for up to 127
device on the bus).
The USB portion of the chip has itís own
memory 256 byte buffer, and main ram = 512
bytes( for a total of 768 bytes), 512 byte
more than current processor, code space =16K
(double than current processor).This
processor  else has self programming flash
memory, with a small boot loader programmed
in memory they can upgrade the firmware via
the USB port, instead shipping new units
masquerading them as diagnostic units.
Anyway this would be a dream controller,
there are few other feature (firmware only)
I would add, but X10 itís not interested to
make a good product, why provide more
ideas, they will be falling on deaf hears.
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SteveRF

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2005, 10:50:09 PM »

X10 probably has a redesign in the mill
already  but has to wait for FCC approval etc.
I am sure their design team already knows all
the specs, chip errata and functions of the
current model. Same as Microsoft, got it out
there, started the customer base and then
BAM, better with each iteration.  Ears do get
deaf when you hear the same thing over and
over ....
Regards,
SteveRF
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 11:22:45 PM »

SteveRF

If I recall correctly a while back you had
many nasty messages for X10, you either got
a payout from X10 , or you are fool to
believe that X10 listens and will deliver.
CM11a had overheating  problems, I have 2
of them , one failed (after the warranty of
course) eventually they improved (not
fixed) but many poor souls lost money , as
they where out of warranty and could not
return them.
TM751 transceiver: if you hold the remote
to dim or bright it will lock up( it need
to be unplugged to reset), to my knowledge,
new ones have still this problem.
TW523, it will miss repeated dims, X10
solution is to add to the manual that the
device will only detect every 3rd dim or
bright code.
This is a few things that never got fixed.
Just to keep you updated my 1132CUP it has
been working flawless, I added many macros,
all controlled by motions, events and timer
and flags, absolutely flawless, and by the
way : It monitors ALL HOUSE CODES.
I have 2 lights using WS467 switches, at
night time they gentle turn bright without
going full on then dim, and if I
accidentally turn the light off manually ,
the moment I manually turn back on it ( or
a motion detector is activated) itís back
to work again, oh and the timer is reset
when it detect motion, so as long there is
motion the lights remain on.
X10 Pro said it could not be done , oops
with AHP that is.
Enjoy your flaky system, and keep on
dreaming.
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Observer

  • Guest
Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2005, 02:03:45 PM »

Steve RF:  You have yet to be a
contributor... Just an opportunistic
poacher, detractor, and big mouth.  You are
not amusing nor entertaining.  So either
become an "on subject contributor" or %^$#%
#$!@%*%&K off.  
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X10 Pro

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Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2005, 03:00:05 PM »

Whoa. That's enough personal attacks.
Everyone has a right to contribute on every
thread. If this continues I'll be forced to
edit or remove posts.
Logged

The Innocent

  • Guest
Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2005, 01:00:36 AM »

So whats different?
Logged

Observer

  • Guest
Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2005, 01:36:59 AM »

X10 Pro:
Just making sure that the eye stays on the
ball  :-)
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Observer

  • Guest
Re: Problem with CM15A as whole house transceiver
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2005, 11:56:48 PM »

Tcassio:  X10 has declared that they donít
feel anything is wrong with their RF on the
CM15A (see below) so it must be the anemic
processor causing the missed MS commands you
described.

X10 Pro     4/22/2005 01:59 PM
We do not feel that there is fundamental
hardware RF problem that we need to fix. I
do know that individual users have had
problems, and I'm not denying that.
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