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Author Topic: Conditions Based on Module Status  (Read 10878 times)

Azeotrope

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Conditions Based on Module Status
« on: May 01, 2005, 08:21:20 PM »

I purchased both the CM15a/AHP/SmartMacros
to use as a flexible irrigation controller.
I also purchased the Rain8II, an x10 based 2-
way irrigation controller.  I am trying to
figure out how, using the above software, to
fire off the sprinklers one by one checking
the module status before proceeding.
Something like this...

1 Turn on Zone 1
Check Status
If Zone 1 is not "on" go to 1
Delay 20 minutes
2 Turn off Zone 1
Check status
If Zone 1 is not "off" go to 2

...and so on through the remaining zones.

Is this doable using AHP/SM? I also have the
1132CUP, can it be done in SMP?  Or do I
need something heavier duty?

Thanks.
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joe s.

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2005, 09:48:22 PM »

1132CU/Smarthome Manager PLUS, is great at
monitoring module status and responding
correctly - but I've never done what you're
asking.  However I think I know what you need
and wrote a quick *.shl program (zipped) and
attached it so you can download it at:
http://www.accessx10.com/

It is specifically at:
http://forums.accessx10.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2093#post2093
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Mike C

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2005, 10:07:03 PM »

I would not use the cm15a in its current
state to control anything important. Such
as your sprinklers. You would be better to
program the Rain8 to Automatic mode and use
the 1132cup to trigger the cycle.
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Tony Olson

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2005, 05:10:00 PM »

This person has a valid question
(Mudguppie). I would like to know the X10
Pro solution if there is one! One could use
this for many different types of tasks
(testing module status). Thanks.
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X10 Pro

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2005, 05:36:05 PM »

Mudguppie: ActiveHome Pro doesn't have quite
the level of logic you describe. You can
approach it using some timers, the Monitored
House Code conditions, and a complex set of if/else macros.

You could
use flags to track that commands that have
been sent, instead of tracking using the
monitored house code, but there isn't a way
in AHP to poll status and then respond, which
the Rain811 appeats to be able to handle.

You might be better off using the SDK to
write a script of events to do what you want
to do, since you can send status requests and
respond to them, and do all the logic you
want. That would take a little bit of
programming, however.
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2005, 05:42:04 PM »

From what I have read this is not possible
with SmartMacros since it isnít currently
able to perform status requests.  This
could be done with the SDK, but that would
require more advanced programming.  It
would also require the computer be on and
connected to the CM15A.
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Ant

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2005, 10:10:40 AM »

I'm confused as to why people are saying
that SmartMacros cannot perform status
requests.  There is a function to check
Module Status (as set in CM15a - not from
polling).  If the actual status of the
module always matches the CM15a status,
then shouldn't Mudguppies request be
possible?  When the rain sensor in each
zone is activated, does this not send an ON
signal to the CM15a from which his
conditions can function?
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2005, 10:55:49 AM »

Part 2 of 2

Using a status request in this way does not
guarantee reliability, but it does improve
it.  There are basically four scenarios
after sending the command and status
request:

1. You receive the correct status response
(thus you know the status is correct)
2. You receive an incorrect status response
(thus you know the status is not correct)
3. You do not receive status notification
but the moduleís status is correct (either
the status request or the status response
were lost)
4. You do not receive status notification
but the moduleís status isnít correct (both
the command and either the status request
or the status response were lost)

In scenario 1 you are happy.

In scenario 2 you will send the command and
status request again and hope it will work
next time.  There is a good chance it will
since it did receive the status response
correctly.

To the controller scenario 3 & 4 look the
same.  Either way you will send the command
again and hope you will get a response next
time.  If you do that is great, but if you
donít ever receive the correct status, you
are in trouble.  In either scenario you
will start flooding the powerline with
commands and status requests and in
scenario 4 you will also be flooding your
grass/garden and maybe even your
basement ;).
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2005, 10:56:08 AM »

Part 1 of 2

Ant:  The problem is the assumption
that ďthe actual status of the module
always matches the CM15a statusĒ is not a
good one.  There are at least two
situations where the status of the module
does NOT match the status known by the
CM15a.  These are:

1. The status of the module was changed
locally on a module that does not have 2-
way capabilities.
2. The module did not receive (or correctly
process) the command for some reason.

In the first case, there isnít much you can
do about it since the module is not capable
of telling the controller its status.

It is the second case that Mudguppie is
primarily concerned about.  If the command
he sends to turn off the sprinklers gets
lost for some reason (it happens), he could
end up with flooding.
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paul k

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2005, 11:38:32 AM »

Roger, two things:
1. The good news is that the Rain8-II has a
maximum watering time for each station. So,
you cannot truly flood anything (it defaults
to 20 minutes).
2. The normal model is that for modules
defined to have a status polling ability, the
software should try for some number of times
(say 10 or 20, perhaps using "polite polling"
so as not to lock up the power-line with
messages) and then fail the macro if things
go badly. One can define a macro failure
behavior, such as "ON" to a light and/or
all-off to that house code. Once could use
the on of a light (or beeper module or
whatever) to signal the user that something
has gone wrong. This would also be useful
since the opposite problem is that your lawn
is dead due to not getting water.
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2005, 02:03:54 PM »

Paul:  I agree this theoretically would be
possible (and optimal).  The problem is
with the AHP software you currently cannot
pole the status of a module within a
macro.  Currently macros only know what
they think the status is (based on the last
command sent/received by the CM15A), not
what the status of the module actually is.
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paul k

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2005, 02:28:37 PM »

Hi Roger. I agree that their software is
wrong as it stands. I was arguing with
regards to your statement: Using a status
request in this way does not guarantee
reliability. If it is done as I suggest, then
you have reliability that either it does what
is wanted, or you are notified (assuming the
notification mechanism is not also
compromised). Since the sprinklers will be
remote and more likely to get powerline
errors, this is a good approach. The fact
that WGL though to have an auto-off is also a
very good thing, as it adds fail-safety.
My point is that X10 Pro should add this.
They can reprogram the MCU code as well as
the data, as far as I can tell. It does not
appear to be locked off. They are just
choosing to rewrite the data only
(reasonable). On the other hand, they have
little space for their app, so it may be they
could not fit polling in.
I have ordered the SmartHome module which
claims to do this (and let you choose how
aggressive in getting the message through
when polling shows not changed). I will see
if how well it works. If it does support this
polling, I will switch to their scheme, even
though the AHP software looks better.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2005, 11:09:22 PM »

Paul K

On the CM15a only data can be reprogrammed,
the MCU is a one time eeprom based, can not
be reprogrammed.
I would not risk to use X10 or any other
PLC based sprinkler controller; just
because the WGL has auto shutoff, it is
still possible to re-trigger several time a
day the same line due to a macro
malfunction or power line noise; you may
not have a flooding, but a large water bill
is still possible.
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paul k

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Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2005, 11:47:41 PM »

Yes, you are right. The enCoRe uses OTP EPROM
(so much for it being E-PROM).
As to running the sprinkler, I do not have
any problems, even with the CM15A. It has
always worked when it was supposed to and
never gone off when it was not supposed to. I
have a PalmPad to manually run them, and that
works perfectly as well.
The Rain8-II is connected to a SmartHome
linc. It seems to be very good about not
responding to noise. But, I agree that if
someone has problems with a lot of noise or
neighbors, this could be a problem. I used a
house code which I have verified has not been
used by anyone else in my area (everyone uses
A). You could also use the SmartHome extended
codes (added a huge set of additional
addresses) as that would make it very
unlikely to get noise.
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Conditions Based on Module Status
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2005, 10:59:20 AM »

Does anyone know if there are any modules
that use "Type 4 Extended Secure
Addressing?"  This would address any
concerns about it accidentally turning on
since in this mode an 8-bit security
address must match in addition to the house
and unit codes.
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