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Author Topic: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post  (Read 8077 times)

arf1410

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X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« on: May 24, 2005, 11:42:30 PM »

X10 Pro - Carmine (post 5/24/2005 08:10 PM,
Finally Time to Dive in?)  brings up some
convincing points, which I do not have the
knowledge to support or refute, however you
do, so a comment on his post would be
appreciated.
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tcassio

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 07:58:21 AM »

Arf,
Do you really expect that X10Pro is going
to comment on the shortfalls of the
equipment they sell, NOT.  Besides he has
already stated that the GPIO problem is not
a problem for the CM15A and that the same
equipment does not have any RF problems.  I
don't remember which posts he stated this
in, I'm sure someone can point you in the
right direction.
T.
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roger1818

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2005, 03:00:10 PM »

Don't forget he also said that some people
have problems with powerline noise causing
the clock to run fast but that this is not
a design fault.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2005, 04:55:56 PM »

X10, like many other companies in the same
boat will never admit there is anything
wrong with their products unless forced by
a court order (Al Capone plead not guilt
too); the only reason I placed the post is
to allow people to make more informed
decision; the fact that X10 is introducing
new plug-ins should be enough of a warning
that their only interest is to make as much
money as possible now because X10 PLC
communication will eventually (probably
sooner than later) be replaced with a
different form of control, and they have no
intention of improving the CM15a. New
energy efficient appliances cause a lot of
grief for X10 signals, recently I
discovered my new good looking and energy
efficient nigh lights each was attenuating
X10 signal my more than 30%, 4 of these
lights severely disrupted my X10 based
devices.
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X10 Pro

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2005, 07:01:34 PM »

I have a feeling that there's no response to
these kinds of claims/complaints that will be
acceptable to you guys...

To clarify Tcassio's point, we don't use the
GPI0 on the microcontroller, so while there
is a problem with that chip, it's does not
affect the CM15A -- a fine distinction, to be
sure, but important.

I can't reproduce the crash that Carmine
described in his other post (send RF while
the CM15A is in the middle of of a long dim).
If I send an RF command while PLC is being
sent, the RF command is transmitted on the
powerline when the first powerline command is
completed.

In any case, the fact is that we don't
consider the design to be flawed and aren't
going to recall the product or issue a new
version.

I'm not saying that we don't continue to have
customers who report problems and need help;
we do. If something doesn't work for a
customer, we'll do our best to make it work.
I feel we've come a long way since this
product was first released, and I think we're
able to solve most of problems our customers
encounter.

Ultimately, we're not selling the design of
the RF receiver, the microcontroller, or the
EEPROM -- we're selling timers and macros, RF
transceiving, etc. With the latest software
and diagnostic interface, ActiveHome Pro does
what it was designed to do.
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tcassio

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2005, 07:16:43 PM »

X10Pro,
I understand what you are saying, however,
the key phrase in your last
statement "Diagnostic unit".  Why was I
never offered one.  I did get a replacement
thru phone Tech support and the one I
recieved was worse than the my original
unit.  I sat on this forum for 6 weeks plus
posting problems and was never offered a
Dianostic unit.  That is the problem I had
with X10, the way problems were being dealt
with.

After just changing my controller to a
different manuf. and adding RF (V572A) my
system works fine.  So obviously my
configuration, power line conditions and my
programming all were not at fault.  I still
own a CM15A and software and would like to
have a working unit (which I am entitled
to).  To bad X10 handled my situation all
wrong you guys lost my business.
T.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2005, 07:52:54 PM »

X10 Pro

It’s evident that the so called diagnostic
unit is an improved version( at least the
firmware level) my test were done on 2
different units, and produced same results.
I initially registered my friend unit (Jan
26/2005), then purchased my own + smart
macros on Jan 28/2005, tests were conduct
on both CM15a with the same results, a 3rd
CM15a from another friend has similar
problem. Both of my friends give up on X10,
because they have purchased their CM15a
with a bundle they choose not to return it.
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arf1410

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2005, 11:53:45 PM »

/1/  I'm not smart enough to debate chip
design with X10-Pro and Carmine, and I
cannot argue with X10-Pro's statement that
they are not selling the design, but a
product that does certain things.

/2/  however, I have now returned 3 non-
functioning units (last of which my PC
would not recognize), and and X10 has
provided no analysis of those units (or
similar ones returned by others) as to what
the problem was.  Assuming it was not a
design flaw, then was it a manufacturing
problem / QC problem?

/2/  Here's what I DO know - A simply test
I ran, using 2 CM15As. One was programmed
to simply send an J10 ON command every hour
on the hour, and a J10 OFF command every
hour on the half hour.  No modules were
actually being controlled.  The second
CM15A had an empty memory, and was plugged
into the same power strip (non surge
protector) to use to monitor the signal.
No chance for dirty power, lost signal,
etc.  The commands were executed properly a
few times, then at the wrong times, then
stopped totally in less than 12 hours.  X10
cannot / would not provide any explaination
of the problem, even after the units were
returned.

/3/ I really want these problems to be
fixed, so I can re-purchase the unit, as
the concept is great!  Bt until X10 can
give a plausable explanation of the
problems, I cannot have confidence they
have been fixed.

/4/  X10- Pro - please explain the comment
about "with the diagnostic interface...AHP
does what it..."  So are you implying the
non diagnostic units do not function as
designed?
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carmine pacifico

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2005, 09:31:33 AM »

Arf1410

You do not need to understand the design,
just how it works for you.
Even people that claim to be happy with
their product admit that it crashes,
regardless of all the BS X10 pro is saying,
this product it’s not working as advertised.
The PC magazine award that they proudly
have on their web site does not have 1
positive comment to the editor, most people
who reviewed the article believe PC
magazine either did not use the product or
got paid.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1677331
,00.asp
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roger1818

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2005, 10:37:40 AM »

Carmine:  FWIIW, I have not had a crash
since I received my diagnostic unit about 1
˝ months ago (my old unit would crash every
2 weeks).  The fact that there supposedly
weren’t any bug fixes in this firmware
revision makes me a little nervous about
its long-term stability, but so far so good.

As far as X10 Pro’s comment about “not
selling the design” but the implementation,
that is true, but it is reasonable to
analyze if the hardware provided is capable
of doing what the product is advertised to
do.  However, it is difficult to analyze
some aspects of the hardware without
analyzing the firmware.
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joe s.

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2005, 10:50:33 AM »

I don't think there were any back-room
payoffs.  I'm not a consipiracy theorist.  I
think AHP was introduced too soon and remains
marginally viable (a considerable improvement
since my experience) to this day.

What I also believe, is that many
non-annoying people (hopefully, like me) have
either replaced it with a different unit
(their former CM11a or a competitive product)
or just plain gave up.  Each of us have
tossed it into our underwear drawers until it
either finally works (by monitoring forum),
or simply gets shuffled around often enough
to be annoying and is completely discarded.
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carmine pacifico

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2005, 02:38:00 PM »

Roger H.

That proves that they are trying to fix
hardware deficiency with firmware changes.
Most of the people reporting improved
stability have diagnostic units, I would
not be surprised if these units else have
hardware fixes; while back I asked forum
users to open the CM15a and read the label
on the 18 pin chip, he did not take long
for X10 Pro to discourage anyone from
opening the CM15a and add fear of loss of
warranty. The 2 CM15a I had in
January/February time frame had different
firmware revision.
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jon larson

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Re: X10 Pro - PLease comment on Post
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2005, 11:19:57 PM »

I find it unfortunate that X10 takes such a
careless approach to its customers.  These
forums are full of various problems, one of
the largest being the lack of range.  Many
customers have resorted to modifying the
design to make it work,  Instead to being
honest and fixing the problem, X10 continues
to advertise this substandard equipment on
their website, presenting it as stable, fully
functional equipment.  X10: Just fix the
design...its as simple as that.  Your words
are meanless and do nothing but insult your
customers!
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