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Author Topic: cm15a  (Read 18088 times)

jose

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cm15a
« on: September 08, 2005, 11:43:31 AM »

Having problem with the cm15a. It will only
work during the day time but fail at night
for all outlets but one.I think there is
high frequency noise interference coming
throught L1 and L2. Is there a noise filter
out there that takes care of this problem?
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roger1818

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 03:59:57 PM »

Jose: It depends on the source of the noise (assuming it is noise).  If it is coming in from outside the house your best bet would be to use a Whole-House Blocking Coupler (such as the X10 Pro PZZ01).  This will block all powerline noise that will interfere with X10 signals from coming into your house.  If it is coming from within the house you will need to plug/wire in noise filters which will block the noise (and X10 signals).

The other thing to consider is that the problem might actually be related to signal strength.  Do you have a phase coupler to allow the signal to easily get from one electrical phase to the other?

For more information check out some tutorials I wrote at:

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Phase_Coupling
and
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Noise%2C_Noise_Filters_and_Automatic_Gain_Control
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 03:25:32 PM by roger1818 »
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tybirdtybird

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 08:28:13 AM »

The links don't work anymore .
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Brian H

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 08:33:02 AM »

There are many subjects covered in the links below. Some are on noise and coupling.
http://www.davehouston.net/
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
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roger1818

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 03:26:37 PM »

The links don't work anymore .

I moved them to the X10 Wiki years ago.  I have updated the links in my previous post.
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B.A.

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 06:51:47 AM »

I had the exact same problem before I installed a phase coupler.
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Noam

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 08:47:23 AM »

I had the exact same problem before I installed a phase coupler.
I also had the same problem (certain lights only worked during the day, not at night).
I already had a passive coupler (capacitor). That didn't help.
I added an XTB-IIR. That fixed other problems I was having, but this one didn't go away.
I finally tracked down and replaced a noise CFL bulb. It took me two weeks to find it, because it  was on the front porch OF MY NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET!
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JeffVolp

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 10:31:29 AM »

Jose: It depends on the source of the noise (assuming it is noise).  If it is coming in from outside the house your best bet would be to use a Whole-House Blocking Coupler (such as the X10 Pro PZZ01).  This will block all powerline noise that will interfere with X10 signals from coming into your house.

One would expect that to be true.  However there was a fellow who bought one of my units who installed a whole house blocking coupler, and that did not totally block the incoming noise.  He reported the problem began right after the electrical company did some work outside.  Nothing he tried totally solved the problem, so he eventually gave up on X10 automation entirely.

Since then I have been pursuing a new approach - the Tuned Signal Sucker - to severely attenuate out-of-band noise, and even attenuate in-band noise.  Of course, that also attenuates the X10 signals themselves, and it will only work in homes that incorporate a signal booster to push the X10 signal well above the noise level.  In the limited testing I have done here it seems to do exactly what the simulation showed.

Jeff
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Noam

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2010, 10:46:33 AM »

Since then I have been pursuing a new approach - the Tuned Signal Sucker ...

After that, you should work on the "Noisy CFL Across-The-Street Detector" ;-)
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roger1818

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 10:48:05 AM »

Jose: It depends on the source of the noise (assuming it is noise).  If it is coming in from outside the house your best bet would be to use a Whole-House Blocking Coupler (such as the X10 Pro PZZ01).  This will block all powerline noise that will interfere with X10 signals from coming into your house.

One would expect that to be true.  However there was a fellow who bought one of my units who installed a whole house blocking coupler, and that did not totally block the incoming noise.  He reported the problem began right after the electrical company did some work outside.  Nothing he tried totally solved the problem, so he eventually gave up on X10 automation entirely.

Two thoughts.  First of all, no filter will block noise completely.  They will only attenuate (reduce) it (the PZZ01 does it at a rate of 30:1), but if the noise is extremely strong, some will pass through and still cause problems.

Secondly, Whole-House Blocking Couplers are intended to block X10 signals, which are across the hot and neutral (120V) lines.  If the noise is across the two hot (240V) lines, it won't be affected by the blocking coupler.

Quote
Since then I have been pursuing a new approach - the Tuned Signal Sucker - to severely attenuate out-of-band noise, and even attenuate in-band noise.  Of course, that also attenuates the X10 signals themselves, and it will only work in homes that incorporate a signal booster to push the X10 signal well above the noise level.  In the limited testing I have done here it seems to do exactly what the simulation showed.

That is basically what the XPNR does.
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JeffVolp

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Re: cm15a
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 05:10:26 PM »

Since then I have been pursuing a new approach - the Tuned Signal Sucker - to severely attenuate out-of-band noise, and even attenuate in-band noise.  Of course, that also attenuates the X10 signals themselves, and it will only work in homes that incorporate a signal booster to push the X10 signal well above the noise level.  In the limited testing I have done here it seems to do exactly what the simulation showed.

That is basically what the XPNR does.

That is true, but there is a difference.  Because the XPNR is intended for systems with normal X10 transmitters, it has relatively little in-band attenuation.  The problem that many of us have is due to noise near 120KHz that gets right through the receiving stage bandpass filters.

The TSS attenuates all noise, but in-band noise not as severely as out of band noise.  The TSS has about a factor of 4 more attenuation to in-band noise compared with the XPNR.  Of course, the downside is that it will also attenuate the X10 signals themselves, which is why it must be used in a system with a signal booster.

I donít see this as any panacea.  I started work on it initially due to the fellow who had an insurmountable noise problem coming in over the powerline.  Everything we tried did not totally solve the problem, and he eventually gave up on X10 control.  I think that one of these on each phase with his system driven by the XTB-IIR would have at least given him a shot at a working system.

Jeff
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 01:05:31 PM by JeffVolp »
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