Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The New WIFI Module is now available!
                   *****Here's the link******

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: 120v to 220v  (Read 58793 times)

peter

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 1
120v to 220v
« on: January 07, 2006, 05:30:37 PM »

I would like to know if there is an X10
system that can be used with a 220v 50hz
system.
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 285
  • Posts: 12376
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2006, 06:25:07 PM »

There are 220 volt modules sold overseas. I don't think the AHP cm15a 220 volt model is avilable yet though. Also some automation web sites have modifications to change 120 volt modules to 220 volt ones. That route kills the warantee. One place: http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 02:57:09 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
Logged

mnazmi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 13
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 07:55:22 AM »

220/240V X10 systems sold (in the UK) are so very expensive.  Try paying $40 for a $4 unit bought on ebay..!!  choose a few units and the excess price is over wheliming..

I bough my stuff from ebay (around $400 by now) and found modlificaiton info from the net.  all the modes I made work.
CM15a needs no modificaitons.  Just buy a 240/110 (UK-US) transformer unit  ($5) and connect .47uF cap and a MOve and you are on your way.  Get the mod info by searching for (general modification X10 240) on yahoo.

Good luck..
Logged

roger1818

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 28
  • Posts: 1072
  • Roger H.
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 09:50:33 AM »

CM15a needs no modificaitons.  Just buy a 240/110 (UK-US) transformer unit  ($5) and connect .47uF cap and a MOve and you are on your way.  Get the mod info by searching for (general modification X10 240) on yahoo.

mnazmi:  The CM15A uses the 60Hz from the powerline as a timer for the clock.  How do you prevent the CM15A from losing time?  The 240/110 transformer won't convert the 50Hz to 60Hz.  Do you keep it connected to your PC (the PC will frequently set the clock)?
Logged

mnazmi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 13
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 09:48:48 AM »

That is a good question..  I have managed to find the schematics of CM15a and it looks as if the timer heart-beat (sort of speak) comes from the mains zero-cross detector.  Therefore one is right to assume that CM15A timer will run a little faster when operated in a 240/60HZ environment. I guess this will result in a clock that runs 20% faster than it should  !!!! :-\

Lets see:  this will be about 5 hours in 24. (1 day in a week  OOOPs).  Granted this may not be acceptable but since no one sells a 240/60HZ our choice is limited....

The zero-cross detector is design in CM15a so that it can easily be got at for modification.  I guess one can design or buy an extra bits of electronics to frequency divide the 60 counts back into the 50 counts per second.  This  technically is not a difficult thing to do and could be done with perhaps a simple one-shot-timer to mask out 60HZ edges.

Equally one may be able to run a batch file to adjust the PC/CM15A timer every hour/day or so to reset.

I am sorry I have not done any of these since I have just got into CM15A.  I will keep an eye on this thread and see how it develops.

Matthew. Nazmi.

Logged

mnazmi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 13
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2006, 03:53:02 AM »

Roger,

After my reply to you I went home and spent some time studying the circuits and the computer chip data sheet used in CM15A.  Of course withought the program codes it is hard to see what exactly might be happening.  But I came to the conclusion that the timer signals can not possibly be derived from the 50/60Hz mains.  If it did then how would CM15A keep the clock alive when the mains fail !  particularly since there is no battery operated circuits to simulate 50/60HZ zero Cross in the event the mains signal disappears.

This lead me to think that perhaps time (Clock) values are genrated internally with the computer chip (CPU) resources independent of anything that might be connected to it with or without the mains power.  This is kind of a good news because the CPUs operation is mains frequency independent and therefore our 110/50HZ units should keep the same time when plugged into (a modified) 240/60HZ mains........Other wise no timing problems....  I will plug in my newly arrived CM15A this weekend and see how much time drift I get on it...I will update...

I kind of think that the CPU maing zero cross detector input signal is to provide for X10 "on the wire" communication synchronisation purposes only.  There therfore is an upside to this for us 60HZ users:  :D iour 60HZ system would communicate 20% faster than the 50Hz one..

I hope I was able to make a sensable contribution here.  If what I am thinking aloud above is correct then you need to forget about the comments I made about extra timing circuits in my previous reply.
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 285
  • Posts: 12376
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2006, 06:57:12 AM »

Did you also see that NO bypass caps where on the controller and memory chips?
Logged

mnazmi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 13
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2006, 07:24:50 AM »

I am sorry but I do not follow, "The bypass Caps ??".  What do you mean?

I tell you what is confusing me though. That is the connection to CPU P0.7 pin that says if a battery is present or Not.  Why should CM15A want to know if a battery is present?  Surely it is more important to know if the mains voltage is there or not.  More importantly  there is no circuit to tell the CPU if the mains voltage is present or not except for the zero-cross detector (might be used as proxy by the software I guess).  That I find very strange  ???

At first I though X10 was trying to power the CPU down when no mains was available, like put it to sleep or suspend, to preserve battery power.  As it is a 1000Mah battery lasts only 2 days or so without any electricity.  Then when I studied the CPU documentation I notice that in a low power state the CPU's clock circuitry is shut down.  Knowing that may be happy.. ;D  because a suspended CPU could not keep the clock running. the latter being precisely what we want to do.

Therefore I theorise that nothing cleaver is going on. The mains fail, the battery feeds the regulator through a simple diode, the power to CPU continues, and the CPU does not even hit that the mains is gone.  The what on earth does it need the battery present signal?  if any one knows then please lets hear it.

Matthew
Logged

Dan Lawrence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 68
  • Posts: 3991
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 11:22:57 AM »

Regardless of what's been said in this discusion, you CANNOT use 110 volt us equipment on a 240 volt system unless you use a converter. 240 volt current will burn a 110 volt unit out very quickly. Commerical converter uinits are sold to allow US equipment to function properly in Europe.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 06:39:03 PM by Dan Lawrence »
Logged
I don't SELL this stuff... BUT I sure do ENJOY using it!!!

roger1818

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 28
  • Posts: 1072
  • Roger H.
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 01:30:41 PM »

This lead me to think that perhaps time (Clock) values are genrated internally with the computer chip (CPU) resources independent of anything that might be connected to it with or without the mains power.  This is kind of a good news because the CPUs operation is mains frequency independent and therefore our 110/50HZ units should keep the same time when plugged into (a modified) 240/60HZ mains........Other wise no timing problems....  I will plug in my newly arrived CM15A this weekend and see how much time drift I get on it...I will update...

X10 Pro has confirmed in the past that the CM15A does use the 60Hz as a clock timer.  When it switches to battery it then will use the CPU clock as a clock timer until line power is restored.
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 285
  • Posts: 12376
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 04:22:02 PM »

mnazni; I was referring to the common practice of bypass caps [.1uf 50v] on digital devices for noise. Some here with noisy powerlines have added the normally used caps across the controller chip and memory chips along with the power supply caps to fix random lockups and crashes. Very few Electrical Engineers would eliminate the caps.
Logged

roger1818

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 28
  • Posts: 1072
  • Roger H.
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 05:07:45 PM »

mnazni; I was referring to the common practice of bypass caps [.1uf 50v] on digital devices for noise. Some here with noisy powerlines have added the normally used caps across the controller chip and memory chips along with the power supply caps to fix random lockups and crashes. Very few Electrical Engineers would eliminate the caps.

The original post by Andre describing this procedure can be found in the thread Timers and Macros Quitting After "X" Days.
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 285
  • Posts: 12376
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2006, 06:51:15 AM »

Thanks roger1818; I am not good at pointing to other threads.
Logged

mnazmi

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 13
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 04:20:58 AM »

OK guys here is the final word.... :o.

1- I took a cheap 110/240 step transformer and added a 0.47uF, a fuse and a MOV (for safety)
2- I then pluged my 110/60 volts CM15A to a 240/50 european supply.
3- Batteries were place in the CM15A (Althoug I do not think this matters much)
4- I set the time in CM15A last night
5- 12 hours later my CM15A (interface) time (in hardware configuariton) was exactly the same as it shold be.   ;D

Conclusion.  CM15A does not use the mains for its clock.  It uses its intenal circuits under all power condition for maintaing the clock.  So none 110 users use CM15A with confidence.  If anything I found CM15A modification to be the easiest  possible.  The hardest being the socket rocket.

Matthew
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 285
  • Posts: 12376
Re: 120v to 220v
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 10:51:36 AM »

Thanks for that data. Will be very helpful in the future.
 I also read in a thread on the old X10 BB; that someone had found a 240 volt replacement for the 120 volt one in the cm15a. I don't know where they found it as it needs that special tap on the primary to run the Zero Crossing Circuit.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.