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Author Topic: Time when disconnected from PC terrible  (Read 16961 times)

david k

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Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« on: April 10, 2005, 11:42:21 AM »

X10 Pro

Since unplugging the baby CM15A from its
mommy PC last night it gained 1.3 hours in
just less than 12 hours.  I guess you want
us to buy a PC for these things and keep
them running 24/7 so baby will work.  I'm
not going to do that, as other options cost
considerably less.

If the upcoming release does not fix the
clock issue I will be returning your baby
to you for my money back as "it has never
worked like it is supposed to do" (RMA
time).

I really want to keep the device so I
sincerely hope you fix this now or I will
be putting my money on something that
works.  I am tired of waiting any longer.

Best of luck, and make it soon!
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2005, 11:56:41 PM »

David:  Sorry, software will not fix this
problem.  It is a known hardware bug where
powerline noise can cause the clock to run
fast.  When connected to the computer, the
computer will keep resetting the clock.
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X10 Pro

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2005, 01:16:48 PM »

David K: I can swap your interface for a
diagnostic unit and see if that helps, if
you're willing.
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david k

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2005, 07:08:55 PM »

X10Pro

If you could acknowlege or denigh Roger H.
post below about the clock it would be
enough for me to make up my mind....

I have even tried filtering the unit and it
makes no difference.  Hours off after just
24 hours on its own.  Can't live with it
like this at all.  Can the clock be fixed
or not, just let us all know.

Thanks
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X10 Pro

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2005, 08:04:11 PM »

David: There isn't a hardware bug in the
clock, though there are (fairly rare)
circumstances where powerline noise can
affect the clock. I believe you have an
interface I sent to you in the beginning of
February, right? Can you tell me what the
sticker(s) on the back of it say?
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david k

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2005, 10:07:54 PM »

X10Pro

As you stated in an email to me concerning
this posting, I may have (without knowing
it) one of the first diagnostic units with
an error that makes the clock worse than
normal.  I will await the (new repaired)
diagnostic unit to see if it is even close
to acceptable.  I surely understand that I
had a bad unit.  You know it would have
been nice if someone who knew I had a
defective unit had told me earlier.

We'll see how it goes this round and
hopefully the new release and unit will
clear up all my problems.

Thanks
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2005, 11:58:07 PM »

X10 Pro:  I guess you are right.  It isn't
a bug.  It was intentionally designed not
to filter out noise to prevent clock
errors.  I was wrong in assuming that the
designers wanted it to have an accurate
clock.
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roger1818

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  • Roger H.
Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 12:28:36 AM »

BTW.  The schematic for the CM15A is
published on the FCC's website.

TR10 (in the top left corner) is the
transistor that is used to convert the 60Hz
power into a 60Hz pulse.  You will notice
that the base is connected to the neutral
wire through a 100K resistor and the
emitter is connected to the hot wire.  The
transistor is biased as a switch, meaning
that for most of the time it is in either
saturation or cut-off (creating a high or a
low).  If there is noise during the
operating region of the transistor, a
glitch could occur, causing the clock to
count twice.

In my opinion this is a design flaw, but
what do I know.  I didn't write the design
specs.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 01:57:59 PM by roger1818 »
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carmine pacifico

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 09:48:11 AM »

X10 Pro

I wonder how much you know your hardware?
Roger H, is absolutely correct in stating
flaws in the clock circuit, else this
flawed circuit is identical to the TW523
interface and not on the CM11a clock, in
the TW523 is used only as a “zero crossing
detector” this circuit it’s not good enough
for precision clock.
Just to keep you informed the
Microcontroller used on the CM15a CY7C63723
has a faulty GPIO interrupt(there are false
interrupt triggered), there is NO SILICON
FIX PLANNED by Cypress, probably because
they are migrating the encore parts to the
PSOC line.
*************************
• SCOPE OF IMPACT
The chip enters the GPIO Interrupt Service
Routine (ISR) in error.
• WORKAROUND
Workarounds will need to be tailored to
individual applications based on the
flexibility of changing the GPIO
usage, the timing of the GPIO interrupt
sources and firmware interrupt latencies.
• FIX STATUS
No silicon fix is planned.
References
1. 38-08022 CY7C63722/23/43 enCoRe™ USB
Combination Low-speed USB & PS/2 Peripheral
Controller
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logical1

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2006, 11:40:50 AM »

OK, I've run into this problem also.  Someone mentioned that there was more of a problem in earlier units?  (I actually have a newer one that I'm not using.  What can be done to correct this?  I think someone said that a filter didn't seem to correct the problem (and wouldn't the filter also filter the signals?) 

I could keep the unit connected to my computer most of the time.  I'm a little worried about power surges getting to my computer (I live in Florida with lots of lightning)?  If I plug the unit into an APC UPS, would it filter all of my signals?  Also, does the activehome software have to be running in order for the clock to be kept accurate, or does it just have to be plugged in through the USB? 

One problem with keeping my unit plugged into the computer is that it wouldn't be centrally located in my home, and some remote RF signals wouldn't be picked up by it.  Since I have another unit, can I use one (with no programming?) just to relay RF signals?  What should I do to have that happen?

P.S.:  I can't believe that they didn't use a better clock....In my opinion, this is a major design flaw. 
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emil

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2006, 12:21:42 PM »

About that zero crossing input, it can be very effectively filtered in software. When an edge comes in you can internally set a timer to lockout more input until it's very close to the zero-cross time, then open it up again. This works very well from experience :). BTW, 60hz is very,very accurate, it is regulated by law so the power companies don't cheat us. Unfortunately the link for the schematic doesn't work so I can't look at the circuit :(. Do we know if the GPIO interrupt functionality is even used? It may just be turned off.
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ActiveHomePro 3.310
SmartMacros 3.310

Brian H

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2006, 01:12:14 PM »

logical1;
The APC UPS will filter out all the X10 signals if the interface is on one if it's filtered AC outputs.
My APC BX1000 sucked up over 50% of my X10 signals when its AC Input [interface on outlet not ups] was in the same outlet as the interface. I added an X10 type filter to the UPS AC Input to stop it from sucking up all the X10 signals
Also I would NOT put any X10 interface on an UPS's backup outlet that runs on the inverter when the AC is out. The cm15a maybe OK as it has a small power transformer; but things like a TM751 with a powerline derived power supply; will overheat and maybe emit smoke; on battery.
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Brian H

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2006, 01:16:01 PM »

emil;
Is the FCC site down? That is where I found my set of cm15a schematics.

Some have said that adding some bypass caps [there are none] to the microcontroller, serial ram and two power supply filter caps has fixed many problems. Not sure if clock glitches are one of them.
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logical1

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2006, 08:56:49 AM »

Brian: 
Which X-10 filter are you using to keep the UPS from filtering out your X-10 signals?  What do you use to measure your signal strength?  I've got 4 UPS's in my Den, so that might have something to do with the poor performance that I've noticed when I'm operating my CM15A in here. 

Thanks,

logical1 (Scott)
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Brian H

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Re: Time when disconnected from PC terrible
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 10:31:45 AM »

I am using a Smarthome 1626-10. It is a 10 Amp type as my BX1000's AC requirements where close for most of the 5 amp ones.
ACT makes a nice 15 amp one AF120. If your needs are not that high. Many X10 vendors have the X10Pro XPPF 5 Amp one.
I use the ELK ESM-1 for most of my tests. Also have a Smarthome TesterLinc that has a 2 row LCD readout and connects through a 1132B Serial Interface. It can store; I believe the last 40 X10 messages and gives things like Quality of signal and can give noise pulses in the X10 range per second.
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