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Author Topic: ON/Off vs brightness option?  (Read 44972 times)

emil

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ON/Off vs brightness option?
« on: March 06, 2006, 03:18:14 PM »

In preferences (middle tab) if I change from brightness control (default) to on/off control do I need to recreate my macros? How exactly does it work, I know there are two types of lamp commands on/off and brightness. If I select on/off does this now disable brightness control for all lamps?
Ah, if we only had more documentation(or knew where to find it)!
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X10 Pro

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 04:05:33 PM »

If you enable the preference to send the ON command instead of Bright 100%, you don't have to recreate your macros. The setting will take effect when you download your macros again.

If you use that preference you can still use bright and dim commands with those modules. The only thing that changes is how the "ON" command for a lamp module in a macro is interpreted. Without that preference set, selecting an On an a lamp module will send a Bright 100% command. If you set that preference, it will send the ON command, not the bright.
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Noam

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 04:16:55 PM »

So, if the lamp is already on, and dimmed, for example, it won't go back to 100% if it is sent an "on" command?
What about if the lamp is off, and we want it to come on at 50%, will is still be able to do that? (I assume by going to full 100%, then down to 50%)
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X10 Pro

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 04:23:02 PM »

Noam: the answer to both of your questions is yes. A lamp that's at 50% brightness won't do anything if sent an "On" command. If you select the absolute 50% setting in a macro, it will turn onto 100% and then dim down, no matter what the preference is set to. The preference only affects the "On" command for lamp modules.
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Noam

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 04:30:57 PM »

X10 Pro -
Thanks for clearing that up. Let me play the opposite side of the coin for a moment:
Why would I NOT want to change this setting, and leave it sending a "bright 100%" command?
I'm sure there are cases where a "bright 100%" is better than an "on," but I can't think of any at the moment, which is why I'm asking.

Also, if I have a macro set to turn on a light at an absolute level of 50%, then it will send, for example:

A1 On
A1 Bright 100%
A1 dim 50%

And for a relative level of 50%, would just send:

A1 Dim 50%

Is that correct?
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X10 Pro

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 05:32:28 PM »

I think in the first case it would send A Bright 100% and then A Dim 50% -- the On command isn't needed if we know we have to send the Bright 100. The second case is right.

Since you know how the modules work and are pay attention to the operation of your lights, there's not reason for you not to change the setting.
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Mystyx

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 12:31:42 AM »

Explanation of commands are always great :) almost should default the option to ON then  ::)

Quote
and are pay attention to the operation of your lights, there's not reason for you not to change the setting.
OK, took a minute... got it, should change. hehe  :P
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mlumb

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2006, 07:27:14 AM »

I have a related question.  Being new to x10 I am trying to figure out if it is possible to turn on a light directly to a dimmed value instead of going to 100% first and then dimming the light? 
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steven r

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2006, 09:20:06 AM »

...I am trying to figure out if it is possible to turn on a light directly to a dimmed value instead of going to 100% first and then dimming the light? 
The short answer is no.
Not retaining the current dim setting it must 1st go to full brightness as its "reference point" for setting the desired dim setting. There are a few less than ideal work arounds such as leaving the light dimmed to say 2%. Then sending an absolute brighten command. This "works" but the light while visually off is really still on. (I have no idea what the relative power use is for a 2% setting.) Also even the briefest of power failures will leave the light in an off setting.
There are also some switches that you can set an on brightness locally and that becomes the on setting.
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steven r

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2006, 09:55:24 AM »

ATTN X10:[/size][/b]

Is this setting just an AHP function or does it need to be stored in the CM15A?
AHP does not prompt for a save or download when you change the setting.
Has this been added to the bug list? Should I post it under bugs also?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 02:18:50 AM by steven r »
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steven r

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2006, 10:35:41 AM »

Ok just to clarify. (I'm still a bit sleepy this morning.  :))

...The only thing that changes is how the "ON" command for a lamp module in a macro is interpreted. Without that preference set, selecting an On an a lamp module will send a Bright 100% command. If you set that preference, it will send the ON command, not the bright.

The way its reads in AHP is "Issue an 'On' in place of 'bright 100%'". This phrasing had me confused into thinking if I checked the box, I wouldn't be able to send a brighten to 100% as that command would be changed to an "ON".

I want "ON" to be an "ON" and still be able to send an absolute "Bright 100%" command.

I'd like to suggest an example be given below the choice for clarification. If some of us long term X10 users find it confusing, I can imagine it could be very confusing for newbies.

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Noam

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2006, 02:35:11 PM »

one-way X10 lamp modules and switches cannot go from "Off" to whatever dim setting without going to "full on" (100%) first. It is my understanding that Two-way modules and switches are capable of doing this. This is a function of the design of the modules and switches, not the CM15A or AHP.
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roger1818

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2006, 03:30:48 PM »

one-way X10 lamp modules and switches cannot go from "Off" to whatever dim setting without going to "full on" (100%) first. It is my understanding that Two-way modules and switches are capable of doing this. This is a function of the design of the modules and switches, not the CM15A or AHP.

Noam is correct that this is more of a limitation of the old X10 brand modules than a limitation of AHP.  There are actually 2 issues that cause this as follows:

1) When off, the modules can only turn on to 100% and cannot be gradually brightened.  One way around this limitation is to dim the module to 0% instead of turning it off.

2) The second limitation is that they do not support a "PresetDim" command to tell the module what brightness to turn to.  Since the CM15A doesn't remember how bright the module is, it has to send it to a known state (100%) to change a certain level.  If you prefer, you can make the known state 0% by using separate dim and bright commands in a macro.

X10's 2-way modules and most 3rd party modules don't have either of these limitations (although AHP doesn't currently support the old preset dim command that some 3rd part modules use).

The problem is actually a firware issue and not a hardware issue.  I have often wished X10 would upgrade the firmware in these modules, but I guess they would rather sell you the much more expensive 2-way module.
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phorce1

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 01:06:07 AM »

The problem is actually a firware issue and not a hardware issue.  I have often wished X10 would upgrade the firmware in these modules, but I guess they would rather sell you the much more expensive 2-way module.

Not only upgrade but include the new firmware in modules OTHER than a plug in wall module. I eventually want to go to all 2-way modules for everything but I use socket-rockets to control the 4-light fixtures in my ceiling fans in pairs rather than all 4 bulbs on a single switch.

And for non-fan mounted ceiling fixtures I use WS-467 modules currently. To go 2-way on those I'll have to buy the plug-in modules, hack them apart, and mount them in an oversized wall box -- IF I can hack local control onto one (on-off-dim-bright). I haven't bought one yet to play with as I'm sorta waiting for X-10 to release a wall-switch model.

Should I try holding my breath?
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roger1818

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Re: ON/Off vs brightness option?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2006, 10:38:09 AM »

The problem is actually a firware issue and not a hardware issue.  I have often wished X10 would upgrade the firmware in these modules, but I guess they would rather sell you the much more expensive 2-way module.

Not only upgrade but include the new firmware in modules OTHER than a plug in wall module. I eventually want to go to all 2-way modules for everything but I use socket-rockets to control the 4-light fixtures in my ceiling fans in pairs rather than all 4 bulbs on a single switch.

I think you might have misunderstood me.  Hardware upgrades are necessary to make a module 2-way, but it only needs a firmware upgrade to make it so that it won't always go from off to 100%.  Since the socketrocket doesn't dim, a firmware upgrade wouldn't be of much benefit.  Even a 2-way socket rocket wouldn't be of much benefit since it doesn't have a local control feature.

Quote
And for non-fan mounted ceiling fixtures I use WS-467 modules currently. To go 2-way on those I'll have to buy the plug-in modules, hack them apart, and mount them in an oversized wall box -- IF I can hack local control onto one (on-off-dim-bright). I haven't bought one yet to play with as I'm sorta waiting for X-10 to release a wall-switch model.

You have another option.  ACT, Leviton and SmartHome all make 2-way wall switches.  The ACT and Leviton switches are the closest to the X10 2-way module as they support extended commands (including extended dim).  SmartHome, however, makes a toggle style wall switch, which is nice for those of us who don't like the look of Decora switches.
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