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Author Topic: Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA  (Read 26483 times)

X10Zone

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Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA
« on: May 17, 2006, 10:20:56 PM »

Read this topic at: this link
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 06:12:41 PM by X10 Pro »
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Mark Walters

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Re: Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2006, 01:14:37 AM »

Dave:

Glad you could make it to Connections, please join us at the table next time as it would be great to have X10 represented along side Zigbee, Z-Wave and Insteon.  A few clarifications that may have not come through in my comments:

Dave your correct , no one cares about 10msec or even 100msec of latency, they do care start caring about 150-200msec and the vast majority of people think the system is broken if the light doesn't turn on within 250msec.

It takes 50msec to send a short message with Insteon and another 50msec to get a reply,  twice that to get out a long message.  This means Insteon gets two maybe three shots at getting a short message through before latency becomes an issue assuming they are using brute force and “repeating” without regard to the acknowledge status.  Since Insteon synchronizes their RF message with their power line message they impose the same latency on the RF messages.   

My point, maybe not well stated, was while we are waiting the 50 msec to send out a short message with Insteon we can send a much longer message 10 times with the Z-Wave protocol.   Given that in some cases we can expect there may need to be a retry or a “repeat” or “route” I’m more comfortable with the 10 shots in 50msec over the 1 shot with no acknowledge you get with Insteon.  My other point was why tie a new RF protocol to 60Hz power line timing?

As for Leviton selling 40% of the X10 stuff out there again you are correct I’m probably way high at 40% .  It’s hard to guess what has been sold by the “other” guys but I do have a very good number for Leviton sales, have been given what I believe to good numbers from your company and make the assumption that up until the past few years X10 and Leviton were the heavy hitters at least in the lighting side of X10.  I did not take in to consideration what SmartHome has sold and they have been a major player in the past few years.  You know what assuming things can make you and I guess I’m guilty.  Please let me restate my estimate to 37% of the X10 based Lighting Products.  My apologies to anyone I may have offended.

BTW:  Leviton still supports, and will continue to support,  X10 protocol based products in our Decora Home Controls product line.
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Dave Rye

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Re: Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2006, 06:51:51 PM »

Mark no offense taken. I'm used to hearing these kind of comments. My blog entry was not directed solely at you, or Leviton. All these "competing technologies" tout faster as better, my point was who cares? Engineers do, consumers don't. It actually takes 11 powerline cycles to send an X10 PLC signal and we send number-number, followed by command-command, and since the module almost always responds on the first code it receives, it is usually after number-number, command, i.e., 33 powerline cycles, plus the 3 cycle gap between the number and the command, i.e., over half a second (actually 600 mS). You say people think the system is broken if the light doesn't turn on within 250msec. Yet, no one i.e. no consumer, complains that X10 takes too long to turn on a light!

Yes, I hope to give a talk at the next Connections. My focus however would be on products, not advances in the technology, or our protocol. Even though I could talk about that, consumers don't buy protocols, they buy products.

And as for you restating the 40% as 37% I can only smile. :-) Since X10 is a private company there is no way for you to know what our sales are, and therefore you have nothing to compare Leviton's portion of X10 compatible sales to. :-)
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Tricia Parks

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Re: Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 10:54:36 PM »

Dave,

I enjoyed your notes and look forward to having you partiicipate in CONNECTIONS 2007  :D

Hope you can make it to CONNECTIONS Europe in November ....

Tricia
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Duck69

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Re: Connections 2006 in Santa Clara, CA
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 11:33:06 AM »

I'm a consumer who uses X10.
Dave Rye is correct. I don't give a HOOT about 250/1000 seconds of latency.
Heck that works out to a person taking about 9.25 steps or 37 steps per second.
So if a module responds before I take another step; Why in the world would I care ?

What I care about most is that the product works and works reliably.
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