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Author Topic: Can others disable my system?  (Read 63553 times)

KDR

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2006, 07:39:28 PM »

Well it would be nice if X10 looked at making some improvements, if not for just keeping up with the competition. However when it comes to alarm systems keep in mind that everyone purchasing one has a choice of what they buy. If they feel uncomfortable with X10 they can go with Elk or Simion. The more money you have to spend the better the system could be. I added a professional sign out front saying I have an alarm. I have an alarm but not buy the company the sign says I do. It is just another deterrent for a crook to go to the house down the street. If I have something that they want they will find a way to get it no matter what system I have. I would like to see improvements, but I am a satisfied X10 customer. (My RS 49-1000 is made by X10).
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2006, 09:46:50 PM »

Well it would be nice if X10 looked at making some improvements, if not for just keeping up with the competition. However when it comes to alarm systems keep in mind that everyone purchasing one has a choice of what they buy. If they feel uncomfortable with X10 they can go with Elk or Simion. The more money you have to spend the better the system could be. I added a professional sign out front saying I have an alarm. I have an alarm but not buy the company the sign says I do. It is just another deterrent for a crook to go to the house down the street. If I have something that they want they will find a way to get it no matter what system I have. I would like to see improvements, but I am a satisfied X10 customer. (My RS 49-1000 is made by X10).

That's all I'm actually saying acknowledge there's a problem and look into correcting it and stop trying to dodge the issue, I don't think that's asking to much. I to have just recently put out a yard sign and hoping that as you it serves as a visual deterrent to the bad guys to move on and I wouldn't dream of advertising what system I had, there probably inherent weaknesses in all of them and in this case it REALLY DOESN'T PAY TO ADVERTISE, especially if you have an x10 system.

Tcj
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 09:58:49 PM by tom j »
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p2459

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2006, 11:07:25 PM »

In fact the DS7000 system has 64,000 codes, not 256. So it would be extremely unlikely that anyone could "find your code."

A remote has to be installed into the console and the console has to be in the install mode to do this, so no one could install another remote into your system so as to use it to disarm your system.

Of course with ANY RF system you could "jam" the system with something that transmits at the same frequency. But how likely is that to happen? Extremely unlikely. Most burglars are opportunist and wouldn't go to that trouble. Any burglar willing to go to that length could probably defeat ANY system.

X10 have been selling wireless security systems for 17 years and have never had complaints about these issues. Note:  If they had a Forum when the telephone was invented someone would have likely posted that it will never fly because anyone could try all the numbers until they guessed yours and then plague you with prank calls.  :)

Thanks for your response Mr Rye.

First, I would like to point out that I contacted X10 customer service by phone and asked if this system used a single programmed code, or a random (rolling) code technology. After being placed on hold for several minutes, the service rep returned and advised me the system operates on single code technology. If after being programmed, I assume the frequency to disarm stays the same, and doesn't change each time. Even if there were 64,000 possibilities, doesn't the frequency need to be random each time? Otherwise a code grabber/frequency scanner could be placed near the property and simply acquire the correct frequency to disarm the system.

Second, I'm not sure if you're aware but the remote used to jam the X10 sensors was NOT programmed to the console as you suggest, and the console was NOT in the install mode. The system was armed and sensors were disabled with a remote that had never been programmed to the console! This is extremely disturbing. Anyone can simply purchase one of these for $20 and disable an X10 system. I repeat, they need not program it to anything to do this!

I don't know how others feel about this, but I think this is a major problem, and should be corrected immediately.


[TTA Edit: Removed hardcoded CRLFs to improve readability.]
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 04:46:09 PM by TakeTheActive »
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2006, 07:47:22 PM »

Dave Rye Wrote:
"A remote has to be installed into the console and the console has to be in the install mode to do this, so no one could install another remote into your system so as to use it to disarm your system"


Hello I would like to chime in on this to. As mentioned earlier you can totally circumvent the system with practically any x10 remote within range and capable of sending a constant signal such as a pam pad! This really makes the system vulnerable to anyone with this rudimentary knowledge, many of us have lost a margin of confidence in the system and certainly you would agree that this deserves x10's immediate attention. Thank you a long time and extremely concerned customer.

Tcj
« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 09:30:45 PM by tom j »
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magicael

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2006, 07:45:17 PM »

I tried it.. I have several extral remotes and one home unit...You can't jam it. You can't busy the freq and not set off the alarm.
but I have a question. Can I set up the phone dialler to wait a few seconds after the number call and than hit my pager with a call back number?
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tgordo49

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2007, 11:17:08 AM »

Here are some additional thoughts from an RF electronics background:
1. Any wireless alarm's RF signals CAN be jammed/blocked by a stronger signal on the same frequency. Any company that claims otherwise is lying, plain and simple.
2. Using a common X-10 transmitter to block the security devices is a crap-shoot. The odds are that a signal from a sensor will make it through at some time anyway. Don't just do a quick walk-test to check it; try moving around your home for 10 - 20 minutes searching for valuables and moving items outside, and if your system still doesn't go off, then go to #5 below...
3. The odds of someone building and using a powerful, boosted 310MHz jamming signal are slim to none. Especially if you don't advertise what type of system you have. These are the guys we see on TV running right into the arms of the cops, holding home videos of themselves committing their crimes, remember?
4. Code-grabbing is NOT as easy as some would have you believe. Unless you're in a very tight neighborhood, AND your neighbor is the one trying to steal your codes, it would be easier for someone to grab you on the way out the door & force you back into the house for a nice old-fashioned beating & robbing than to steal your codes. Don't be paranoid, the gang from "Mission Impossible" is NOT after your X-Box!  ::)
5. If you're really worried about jamming, you can tip the odds in your favor by keeping your signals as strong as possible. That means changing the batteries before they get weak, aligning the transmitting units for best reception at the controller, and placing the controller in a central location so that your sensors are closer to it than any thief's remote, thus probably having a stronger signal.
6. Use plenty of hardened signaling devices outside. That means not easily found, nor easily removed. You want attention called to the place when the alarm goes off, in case you can't get the phone call for any reason. And don't be afraid to put 911 on the list of numbers; at least in MY small town, they WANT to know when you might be having a problem. I suppose in large cities they'd rather have you go home and shoot the bad guy for them, since they have more important things to worry about (donuts, anyone?)
7. For the worst case, have cameras & a time-lapse DVR running off a UPS in a secure fireproof vault. No matter what happens, you'll have lovely pictures for the cops & the news, so the bad guys will probably get caught.

Pay attention to the above and you should feel quite calm when away from home.
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Walt2

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2007, 01:00:07 PM »

Especially if you don't advertise what type of system you have.

All your comments are "right on", but I thought this one was worth highlighting by repeating it.

Don't post a sign in front our your house which mentions the brand/service of your alarm, X10 or other.  All alarms systems have their "Achilles heal".  Don't help the potential thief by giving him fare warning so that he can prepare and knows how to exploit its weaknesses.
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icecub63

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2007, 04:25:57 PM »

Did X10 ever formalize a failsafe to deal with this problem?  How, specifically do I implement the failsafe noted earlier? I sure wish I had read this thread prior to selling out $200.00 for a "security system" that can be defeated by anyone with a $20.00 remote.
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teez67f

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2007, 04:04:25 AM »

Using a common X-10 transmitter to block the security devices is a crap-shoot.
Posted by: tgordo49

If believing this makes you feel safer please do but no crap shoot about it. ;)

Even if ds7000 has three million codes the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

DS10A,MS10A can all be jammed with palmpad (done it many times with same results).

I had and still do MS&DS10A around the home but never would I tell anyone to bet their life on a X-10 security system.

And if you're lucky enough to have the older remotes that came with RC5000 then kiss you're X-10 security good bye.

By the way a few years ago tried to get old remotes from this kit with same date code X-10 guy offered me a new one if I would send back old one.

Why you ask?Because they realized the early batch could easily disable their security system!(word for word what that rep said then).

My line of work now is industrial automation but I have in the past worked security (last security job was with with dept immigration security under contract).

I've seen some very creative ways from not so bright thieves as you put it.It's like stating the lock on your door can't be opened in 5 seconds without key.

Just go on you tube for a Bump video showing you how to tap lightly and poof doors are unlocked.any door!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNr0h1_yOw&mode=related&search=

If you're life or your families life is important get a true alarm system(wired or wireless) be it honeywell , napco ,dsc ,ge but spend the extra$$$.

Personally if my home or what's in it burns or gets robbed ...could not care less but my family on the other hand is irreplaceable.

just my two cents and if you do have X-10 system ...well something is better than nothing!
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dave w

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2007, 12:29:01 PM »

$0.02
At best, a $150 - $200 security system is designed to diswade the casual thief. I think the idea of a Palm Pad being able to "disable" the system is a straw dog. It can't truly "disable" the system, but only interfere with it, and the thief can not be sure that the interference is working until he gets in the house.

If I had high dollars invested in electronic equipment, jewelry, guns, etc. or lived in a high crime area, I would not trust my security to a $99 alarm system regardless of who makes it.
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teez67f

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2007, 02:43:05 AM »

It can't truly "disable" the system, but only interfere with it....I would not trust my security to a $99 alarm system regardless of who makes it.

well said Dave w
I agree with both your comments and yes interfere is a much better way of putting it.
Also no... neither would I blindly rely on a $99 system but again something is better than nothing.
Securing a home is much more than one thing alone but rather a part of the bigger picture to securing our homes.
Securing doors and windows,smoke,heat and carbon/gas detectors are another part.
Surveillance is also a good way to let the casual thief think twice.
In the end it's about dissuasion and buying you and your family extra time before help gets there,
whether it be a break-in or a fire etc,...
Of course how far we go to do this is directly related to location as Dave w put it.
High crime rate area needs to be dealt with in a more elaborate way than living in a quiet rural area.
Again well said,Dave W's comments shows how important choice of words used can be
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