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Author Topic: Can others disable my system?  (Read 64690 times)

Charles Sullivan

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2006, 07:33:01 PM »

I imagine most household RF security systems could be bypassed simply by swamping out the sensor signal with a high-power oscillator set to the appropriate frequency.  Of course a high-power oscillator is a little more expensive and difficult to come by than an X10 remote, especially when the Midnight Bandit is offering a 6 for 1 deal. :-)
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2006, 08:39:18 PM »

Well like I said I was only able to duplicate this once with one sensor, so actually I'm not really that worried also the person breaking in would have to know exactly what kind of system you have. I still feel this is a very remote possibility.

Tcj
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2006, 11:16:26 PM »

Yeah, how would anyone know what kind of security system you've got.

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BlueSky

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2006, 01:59:02 PM »

Yeah, how would anyone know what kind of security system you've got.


LMAO.... using these "$20" priced decals is really nothing more than advertisement for x10 and provides would-be thieves with knowledge of your system.

Much better heading to ebay and buy decals providing a similar warning except not advertising for x10 or any other security system.


tom... just curious how close your ds7000 console is to your sensors? perhaps if the console is closer to the sensors then the RF signal still may get thru. I have tried my door sensors and motion sensor numerous times and have 100% success rate in fooling the ds7000 console.  >:(
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2006, 10:10:44 PM »

Yeah, how would anyone know what kind of security system you've got.



That's exactly why I don't have or use such stickers, before i even heard of this it just don't pay to advertise what kind of system you have. That x10 sticker is just another add for x10 anyway.

tcj
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2006, 10:14:33 PM »

Say Mr. Sky  ;D well actually the closest is about 30 feet or maybe a little less, say are you going to have time give me a hand with what I think I've found?

Tcj
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baboonatic

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2006, 12:09:05 PM »

If ANY x10 remote can be used/manipulated to place the wireless alarms on standby or turn them off completely, it seems a bit silly to include window decals that state the home is protected by x10.  The window decals might as well say, "Home is protected by x10 security.  Go do some research on the vulnerabilites on the system and come back with a 19.99 remote and go on a free for all."

Is this why I bought $650 worth of security for $190?  I mean, it seems that there should be a fail safe discussed.
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Duck69

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2006, 07:02:32 PM »

All you have to do is cut off theX10 part. Then all is says is that you have security.
Heck, why not make your own on your computer then print it out on an oversized label.
Works for me.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2006, 07:21:49 PM by Otis69 »
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p2459

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2006, 11:27:27 PM »

If I understand correctly, remote arming and disarming of the DS7000 is not via encrypted rolling codes,
such as with other systems. If this is true, anyone could capture your frequency via an inexpensive code
grabber and disarm the system whenever they choose. How secure is that?



The older style garage door openers had the static (single code or frequency) but
they changed the technology years ago to a randomly fluctuating code and so have nearly all
car alarm manufacturers. It is really not all that difficult to acquire a frequency, and if a thief is
familiar with X10 single code technology and is aware you have a X10 system (maybe it was your
cable or satellite TV installer who noticed your $10,000 stereo equip & plasma TV) he can add
you to his list. It's a scary thought, but it could happen. Perhaps there is a way to add rolling
code technology to the X10 system or set to arm/disarm at base only so no remotes work.

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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2006, 06:00:29 PM »

Unfortunately, ANYONE with a security remote can bypass all of your window/door and motion sensors by simply continually holding down a button to jam the signal. It isn't exactly sophisticated since x10 security remotes are very easily obtainable and will work to defeat an x10 system. It's ok to pretend that nobody should know this, but the fact remains that it is very possible and ridiculously easy..... and I have lost all confidence in this system now that i know it can be easily bypassed.

If anyone does not believe me.... try it for yourself.

I am looking for a way now to act as a fail-safe in case anyone tries to jam the RF signal of the sensors. Are there any x10 camera devices that can be used for x10 security? A motion sensing camera or motion sensing floodlight that can trigger the ds7000 or even trigger another device hooked to a siren? Any other ideas to provide a fail-safe?



Huston well we really have a problem!! seems like I was able to duplicate this with the door window sensors and now I'm concerned. I'm still a few weeks/months away from from completing my new system so I guess I to have lost a little confidence in the system as well. After all the only thing between my valuables and the crooks out there is my home owners policy and this alarm system. Plan on bringing this to x10 attention immediately they probably already know though. If this really ever got out it would pretty much make this system impudent. Seems to me this is a problem with the console it appears it can't process two signal simultaneously. Going out of town the end of the month and well I guess this will be in the back of my mind, maybe I'll try to get the new one up and running before I leave sure going to try.  ??? :- :'(

Tcj
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 02:41:03 AM by tom j »
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p2459

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2006, 03:28:23 PM »


I was also able to verify this flaw. Anyone reading these posts should be concerned about it and read the the last few
posts under "Disarming DS7000 remotely". This is a major design flaw, and should be addressed immediately.

We're fortunate to have a secondary alarm system, and high tech camera recording system. Others might be depending
exclusively on the X10 system without knowing how easy it is to bypass. If you are reading this post and want to test
if your system is vulnerable, you should read carefully through the posts to make sure you are testing properly. Once
you've confirmed the vulnerability, send email to daverye@x10.com, and call X10 support and demand an immediate fix.

If enough people complain maybe they'll do something about it, if not the problem might not ever get fixed  :-X
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Tuicemen

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A Fail Safe!!!
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2006, 04:05:39 PM »

I tried to post to this the other day but ran out of time!
I was talking to the creator of X10dispatcher and since his program already has logic to duplicate redundant events he stated that it could be modified very easily to watch for this!
On seeing the repeating signals the program could  play a wave file, alert you via  an e-mail or MSN, open a program which could start a video capture device with a wired cam or send a Voice phone call to you Via AlertDialer
.
    Note:
  • you'll need a CM15A for this to work as it uses the ActiveHome Pro SDK
    .
  • this will only work with none security X10 RF signals until X10 updates the AHP SDK to watch for  Security RF.
    .
  • You will also need a PC running all the time to use this fail-safe ![/b][/color] ;)
    .
This will do untill X10 comes up with their own solution ::) perhaps a upgrade to the On alert Plug-in ;) :D
How soon till this version is released? He is usualy very quick with requested adds so I would think very soon!
If you'd wish to express your desire to see this request happen you can e-mail   him ;) :D :)
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Dave Rye

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2006, 06:32:48 PM »

In fact the DS7000 system has 64,000 codes, not 256. So it would be extremely unlikely that anyone could "find your code."

A remote has to be installed into the console and the console has to be in the install mode to do this, so no one could install another remote into your system so as to use it to disarm your system.

Of course with ANY RF system you could "jam" the system with something that transmits at the same frequency. But how likely is that to happen? Extremely unlikely. Most burglars are opportunist and wouldn't go to that trouble. Any burglar willing to go to that length could probably defeat ANY system.

X10 have been selling wireless security systems for 17 years and have never had complaints about these issues. Note:  If they had a Forum when the telephone was invented someone would have likely posted that it will never fly because anyone could try all the numbers until they guessed yours and then plague you with prank calls.  :)
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Tuicemen

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2006, 06:37:25 PM »

Dave Rye:
Could a fail safe such as the one being worked on by x10dispatcher not be added to the AHP plug-in On Alert?
This would help users sleep easier at night!
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tom j

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Re: Can others disable my system?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2006, 07:21:27 PM »


I was also able to verify this flaw. Anyone reading these posts should be concerned about it and read the the last few
posts under "Disarming DS7000 remotely". This is a major design flaw, and should be addressed immediately.

We're fortunate to have a secondary alarm system, and high tech camera recording system. Others might be depending
exclusively on the X10 system without knowing how easy it is to bypass. If you are reading this post and want to test
if your system is vulnerable, you should read carefully through the posts to make sure you are testing properly. Once
you've confirmed the vulnerability, send email to daverye@x10.com, and call X10 support and demand an immediate fix.

If enough people complain maybe they'll do something about it, if not the problem might not ever get fixed  :-X

Say p2459 you've really been very helpful concerning this and I'm the one that gave you your 1st positive brownie point! Say what do you think about what Mr. Rye said with all due respect I'm just not buying it.  I contacted few other wireless alarm manufacturers and they said you could not, I repeat could not jam their systems using this method for example GE Simon and a couple others. It appears the x10 console lacks the sophistication of some of the slightly more expensive units and apparently they have no intention of addressing this issue. I wish Mr. Rye would comment on why you're able to defeat this system in this way is it that the console can't process two RF signals simultaneously?  :-

Tcj
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 09:53:53 PM by tom j »
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