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Poll

the "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Ratings?

YES - I vote for both Helpful and Not Helpful
YES - But I *ONLY* vote for Helpful
YES - But I *ONLY* vote for Not Helpful
NO

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Author Topic: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???  (Read 24618 times)

TakeTheActive

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Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« on: July 22, 2006, 10:37:51 PM »

IMO, without accountability *AND* refer-backs, the "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Ratings are *WORTHLESS*!  :o

If I mark someone's post as "Helpful" / "Not Helpful", exactly *WHAT* did I accomplish?  ???

  • Does the OP know *WHICH* of his/her posts was marked "Helpful" / "Not Helpful"? - NO!  :(
    .
  • Does the OP know *WHO* marked his/her post "Helpful" / "Not Helpful"? - NO!  :(
    .
  • Do Guests and/or Lurkers usually bother to participate in activities such as this? - NO!  :(
    .
  • Is this an avenue for folks to anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like? - YES! :)
    .
  • Can I spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY??? - YES! :)

So, *WHAT* (bottom-line) does it accomplish?!?  ???  ::)  :-[  :-  :(

IMO, at this point, NOTHING!  :(

  • YES - I have STRONG opinions (certainly you've heard the phrase "Everybody has one...", right?  ;) )
    .
  • YES - I have no hesitation in "stirring the pot"
    .
  • YES - I like to get "right to the point"
    .
  • YES - I dislike folks who post and don't know "WTH they're talking about:o
    .
  • YES - I consider myself very knowledgeable regarding X-10  ;)
    .
  • Other X10 Community members that I recognize / respect:

     - Charles Sullivan - SEARCH comp.home.automation for X-10 and Linux info

     - JeffVolp - SEARCH comp.home.automation for X-10 and XTB info [Glad to see you just joined! :) ]

     - [BTW, I'm new here - if I find more, I'll certainly add them! ;) ]
    .
  • YES I have an "obsession" with forum formatting - IMO, it adds "feeling / expression / emphasis" to the otherwise FLAT text  :)

So folks, here's your chance to PARTICIPATE - VOTE NOW (or forever hold your peace)  :o :-X :- ::)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 10:39:26 PM by TakeTheActive »
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-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 04:09:13 AM »

IMHO:

People who need help generally won't click either one, unless you actually solved their problem (and frequently not even then).

People who disagree with you (with or without good reason) or who just plain don't like you (also with or without good reason) will click "Not Helpful" just out of spite.

Also, the rating should apply to a specific post.  I mean even if a particular user is often full of (you know) it doesn't mean that the post you are veiwing has no merit.  For all you know it is the only time the guy was right on-the-mark!

It may not be possible as X10 didn't write this forum software, but if they can, I think they should disable the rating system except as it applies to specific messages / solutions X10 posts that they would like feedback on.

Just from observation, if a post is truely useless there are plenty of people ready and willing to FLAME about it and thus discourage others from taking it as gospel, and if it's absolutely dangerous you can always inform the moderator.

Again, just my opinion.  It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you.
Or not.
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Duck69

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 10:05:22 AM »

Yes ! I care.
I view the forum as a way to receive and give help.
If I get a helpful rating that means that I helped someone.
A Not Helpful means that I should review my post and try to improve on it.
What about Neutral ? This should be added.
That would mean that you missed or left something out, wasn't clear or not really saying anything.
This should also be reviewed and improved or just deleted.
I do agree with steven r that the ratings should be tied in some way so that the rater would state their reason for the rating given.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 10:59:46 AM by Otis69 »
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steven r

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 10:20:22 AM »

...Again, just my opinion.  It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you....
Pretty much sums up my opinion about them also.

While the pluses are a nice "pat on the back" there's no real accounting for "opinion whims" or "anonymous vindictive raters". As long as there's no way to tie ratings, the rater and rated message together, their value is limited if any. It would be like your boss coming up to and saying that you are doing poor job without giving any reasons. You can worry about his comments all day but if he never gives you any reasons the comment serves no useful purpose. It's best to enjoy the "pats on the back" and let the others "roll off the back".

I think it would be nice if you could turn off / hide the ratings. Even better would be if you could have a "profile comment" or post a message to would be raters such as "This member is not accepting rating at this time. You are encouraged to email them directly with your comments."
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Duck69

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2006, 11:25:53 AM »

TakeTheActive, I've learned from you and have given you a positive rating for the advise given.
Yes, people can be vindictive even hateful yet I believe that most are decent.
People who use the forum to "anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like. Can spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY???" are simply hurting themselves with their immaturity, pettiness, anger, etc,.
A while ago I believe you had several negative ratings and no positive ones. I read your posts anyway and found you to be knowledgable.
I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful and that it could be with some changes made such as suggested by steven r and -Bill- (of BXVC).
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steven r

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2006, 12:26:16 PM »

...I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful...
Yes I believe they were, also. Without additional information they are almost meaningless, however.
This forum has tons of features that really have no bearing on its true purpose, to help others by sharing knowledge and experience about X10 and related subjects.
e.g. My current post rating is 0.918 per day and I've been on this board a total of 7 days 19 hours 59 minutes. Who cares? Maybe it just a reminder to me I should get a life. (It really means I've had a lot of "free time" since my accident and I enjoy the interaction on this board.)
It sure beats the old board even if it is a bit of overkill!
If any of my 30+ years using X10 products can be of help to someone else, great. If someone wants to give me a "+" fine; otherwise I'd rather a message so I can know better how to help or stay out of the way. Even a one line "eBay" style comment line would be useful. Who knows the software may already support something like that. It might be of more help to send suggestions to the Simple Machines people that designed the board rather than to X10. Let's let X10 devote its programing time to making AHP better.

Anyway that's my 2 cents for now. I reserve the right to spend a few more cents later.  ;)
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dave w

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 12:54:43 PM »

Yeah, what steve says goes for me too!
(Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old.)
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steven r

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2006, 01:21:19 PM »

...Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old...
Perhaps it just seems that long. I thought my roommate had a BSR timer back in the early 70s, however. BTW... I still have that model X10-TC262. Anyway long enough to date myself a bit.
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Duck69

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 07:01:42 PM »

steven r, you are correct, it has been that long..........
According to X10, they have been in business for 30+ years and online since 1996.
I won't say how old I am but I have a grandson in the Army.
Like Jack Benny (for those that can remember and doesn't suffer from CRS). I feel like 39. ;D ;D ;D
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 11:37:15 PM »

Bill,

Thanks so much for getting this thread "rolling". :)

While I enjoy posting "possibly interesting" ;) threads on all the forums I visit, I do abstain from replying to them *UNTIL* a good portion of the 'Active' populace responds with THEIR opinions.

The point I'm attempting to make here follows the Signature Line that I use on most of the forums I visit:

Quote
Low Post Count != Low Knowledge - High Post Count != High Knowledge ;)

Just because I'm NEW here, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. For example, JeffVolp just recently joined the Forum, currently has 3 posts to-date, and only *ONE* Helpful Vote (FROM *ME*!  :o ). *ANYONE* who reads Jeff's posts should IMMEDIATELY acknowledge them as Helpful (just SEARCH Group:comp.home.automation for more proof), but, it seems, no one bothers.  :(

*BUT*, if someone UPSETS one of the "Self-Proclaimed EXPERTS" here, WATCH OUT!!!  ::)

I've only been here a couple of weeks, but, I've read many of -Bill- (of BXVC)'s 82 Posts - *WHY* was I the FIRST person to accredit him with a Helpful Vote?!?  ???  Totally unfair to Bill for his contributions.  >:(

IMHO:

People who need help generally won't click either one, unless you actually solved their problem (and frequently not even then).

ABSOLUTELY! In fact, IMO, the folks that gain the most benefits are the LURKERS / GUESTS that *NEVER* register.  :o

...People who disagree with you (with or without good reason) or who just plain don't like you (also with or without good reason) will click "Not Helpful" just out of spite.

And, why not? There's no audit trail / association back to who-did-what... :digust: (couldn't find the smilie)

...Also, the rating should apply to a specific post.  I mean even if a particular user is often full of (you know) it doesn't mean that the post you are veiwing has no merit.  For all you know it is the only time the guy was right on-the-mark!

If you'd like to see a properly implemented VOTING system, IMO, visit FatWallet: SOLD OUT!!! - X-10/RCA Activehome & RemoteControl Kits $10 . IIRC, you'll need JavaScript enabled (I have to "Bypass" Proxomiton if I want to see the VOTES), but you can see WHO voted + or - for EXACTLY which post.

...It may not be possible as X10 didn't write this forum software, but if they can, I think they should disable the rating system except as it applies to specific messages / solutions X10 posts that they would like feedback on.

Again, I refer everyone to the FatWallet implementation...

...Just from observation, if a post is truely useless there are plenty of people ready and willing to FLAME about it and thus discourage others from taking it as gospel, and if it's absolutely dangerous you can always inform the moderator.

*AND*, IMO, if a post is indeed worthy of a Not Helpful Vote, it CERTAINLY should also be worthly of a TEXT REPLY from the Voter, explaining WHY! :digust: (again, couldn't find the smilie)

...Again, just my opinion.  It might even be worth the electron's it took to bring it to you.
Or not.

Healthy discussion is GOOD! :D
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 11:39:56 PM »

...A Not Helpful means that I should review my post and try to improve on it.
And, exactly, WHICH POST would that be that you should REVIEW???  ???
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 11:45:29 PM »

...While the pluses are a nice "pat on the back" there's no real accounting for "opinion whims" or "anonymous vindictive raters". As long as there's no way to tie ratings, the rater and rated message together, their value is limited if any...

EXACTLY!  :)

*WHICH* of my XX posts did you find "Not Helpful", and (specifically) *WHY*?!?  ??? :o ;)
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2006, 11:55:43 PM »

TakeTheActive, I've learned from you and have given you a positive rating for the advise given.

Thank you. :)

...Yes, people can be vindictive even hateful yet I believe that most are decent.

And, I believe that those DECENT folks are also GUESTS / LURKERS / NON-PARTICIPANTS...  :(

...People who use the forum to "anonymously "Back Stab" other posters that they personally don't like. Can spend the next 24 hours (i.e. 1 "Karma" Helpful / Not Helpful Rating per hour) TOTALLY RUINING SOMEONE'S CREDIBILITY???" are simply hurting themselves with their immaturity, pettiness, anger, etc,.
A while ago I believe you had several negative ratings and no positive ones. I read your posts anyway and found you to be knowledgable.
I believe that the ratings were meant to be helpful and that it could be with some changes made such as suggested by steven r and -Bill- (of BXVC).

I didn't come here to win a POPULARITY CONTEST - I came here to share my X-10 knowledge.

As I previously stated:

  • I dislike INCORRECT answers
  • I dislike INCOMPLETE answers
  • I dislike WHINING

If you *REALLY* want a QUICK ANSWER to your X-10 question, SEARCH the newsgroup: comp.home.automation

There's *OVER TEN YEARS* of X-10 Questions and Answers available there - do you *REALLY* think 'your' question is that UNIQUE?!?  ::)
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 12:04:29 AM »

...Without additional information they are almost meaningless, however.

My opinion exactly!

...e.g. My current post rating is 0.918 per day and I've been on this board a total of 7 days 19 hours 59 minutes. Who cares? Maybe it just a reminder to me I should get a life.

Maybe!  :D

...(It really means I've had a lot of "free time" since my accident and I enjoy the interaction on this board.)

I haven't read yet about your accident, but I *DO* hope that you're now feeling better!

...It sure beats the old board even if it is a bit of overkill!

That board CERTAINLY was a *POS*!  :o

...If any of my 30+ years using X10 products can be of help to someone else, great. If someone wants to give me a "+" fine; otherwise I'd rather a message so I can know better how to help or stay out of the way. Even a one line "eBay" style comment line would be useful.

Same here! PLEASE TELL ME what 'you' found "Not Helpful"!  ???
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Helpful / Not Helpful - DO YOU CARE???
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2006, 12:06:35 AM »

...(Except the part about using X10 for 30+ years...X10 isn't quite that old.)

Respectfully, I don't think so...  :o
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