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Author Topic: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]  (Read 23056 times)

TakeTheActive

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Face it folks, X-10 is a ONE-WAY (BLIND, NO FEEDBACK) system - sure, there are (currently) 4 X-10 modules that are TWO-WAY (I don't keep up with Leviton, Smarthome, etc...), but if you read some messages from Dave Houston on GROUP:comp.home.automation, you'll note a discrepancy.

Is the Status returned the:

  • Actual state of the LOAD  *OR*
    .
  • State of the 2-Way Module's internal TRIAC or RELAY

Also, even though ActiveHome [Original] can query (for example) the PR511's Status, what ELSE can you do (programatically) with it?  ???

[A few days ago, I saw this post from hterzian (from couple of months ago), had a GOOD, IMHO ;), answer, but didn't have the TIME (that I've spent today composing messages - once I get started, HOURS fly by... ;) ) to enter it.

oneeye appears to be on the right track, but his answer was so brief, I don't think many picked up on it.]


MY SOLUTION: The Battery-Powered Motion Sensor.

Disclaimer: Although the idea presented here is not 100% foolproof, it works well enough for me (It's been in operation ~3 months now).  I got tired of finding (and listening to my 'dear' wife complain about) lights that turned ON OK, but didn't turn OFF. And, that's why I decided to share it - if it works for you too, GREAT! ;)

  • All of my Motion Sensors are on HouseCode 'F'
    .
  • The lights that are being controlled are located in 'DARK-during-the-daytime' spots (closets, basement, garage)
    .
  • EXAMPLE:
     
    The Motion Sensor in the Bedroom Closet is set to F3, along with the SL575 in the (originally pull-chain) ceiling fixture.

    A "Dummy Light" (Socket Rocket icon) B4 is created in ActiveHome (my STATUS indicator)

    A Macro F4 OFF is created in ActiveHome (Motion Sensor senses LIGHT):  B4 OFF, F3 DIM 30% XX-1 min, F3 OFF XX+1 min

    A Macro F4 ON  is created in ActiveHome (Motion Sensor senses DARK):   B4 ON

    OPERATION:

    However SL575 at F3 is turned ON (either by Motion Sensor F3, Palmpad, Mini/Maxi-Controller, etc...), Macro F4 gets 'triggered' by the light coming on (VERIFYING the LOAD is connected *AND* operational!). And that Macro controls the "Back-Up" OFF. If SL575 at F3 is turned ON by Motion Sensor F3 (set to XX min), then Motion Sensor F3 'should' turn it OFF in XX min. Well, regardless, at XX-1 min, Macro F4 will DIM SL575 at F3, indicating "time is almost up". Then, if Motion Sensor F3 FAILS at XX min, Macro F4 will turn SL575 at F3 OFF at XX+1 min.
    .
  • NOTE:
    In my experience, MS1x Timers are notoriously inaccurate - regardless of the number of minutes you set the Motion Sensor to, you'll have to rely on trial-and-error to arrive at XX.

Have fun! POSITIVE Feedback appreciated!  :P ;)
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 07:45:24 PM »

Take The Active:
When X-10's LM14A 2-way Lamp Module is queried with an Extended Code Status Request, the returned Extended Status Acknowledgement includes both the extended brighness level and a bit which indicates whether a lamp is actually connected - i.e., you can determined if the bulb has burned out or the attached lamp fixture has been turned off.  This module can be configured to automatically return the Extended Status Acknowledgement whenever it receives an X10 signal which changes its state.

The AM14A/PLM21/PLM22 2-way Appliance Modules are  _supposed_ to return that same "load connected" bit, but it doesn't work for any of the units I own.  (The bit always indicates a load is connected even if there's nothing plugged into the module.)

I don't know about other Smarthome 'Linc 2-way lamp modules, but for the LampLinc 2000STW, if it's sent an On signal and the bulb is burned out, the module sends back an Off signal.

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TakeTheActive

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 08:35:53 PM »

When X-10's LM14A 2-way Lamp Module is queried with an Extended Code Status Request, the returned Extended Status Acknowledgement includes both the extended brighness level and a bit which indicates whether a lamp is actually connected - i.e., you can determined if the bulb has burned out or the attached lamp fixture has been turned off.  This module can be configured to automatically return the Extended Status Acknowledgement whenever it receives an X10 signal which changes its state.

My 2 LM14As and 2 AM14As (and 1 CM15A!) are still in their boxes...  :-[

Can ActiveHome [Original] and ActiveHome Pro query them as you suggest?

Knowing that you're the Linux Guru, I'm sure Heyu can. ;)
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 09:33:31 PM »

TTA:
ActiveHome Pro configures the LM14A for the Extended Status Ack when you assign it (at least it did originally - which sometimes could cause the SC546A Chime to morph into a Siren).   Unfortunately AHP strips off the bit with the bulb information when the Ack is displayed in the Activity Monitor.  I'll have to try it again to see whether the latest version provides any bulb info.

The last time I had the original ActiveHome running I noticed that it popped up a window with the bulb information, at least if the bulb was bad if I recall correctly.

If there's anything Heyu can't do that's within the capability of a CM11A (or now with a CM17A Firecracker), the omission will be quickly corrected.  :-)

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TakeTheActive

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 10:46:02 PM »

GEEZ FOLKS!  :o  :(

No one, besides Charles Sullivan, has any even a minute, (2) interest in this (unique / novel / never-before-published [AFAIK]) usage of "UnitCode Plus 1"?  ???

IMHO, this is a wonderful / neat / SUPER TOM-TERRIFIC use for an otherwise WASTED UnitCode!  :)

Come on now - TRY IT!

Then comment on what you think...

[The X10 Community Forums SHOULDN'T only be for folks to COMPLAIN!  ;) ]

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Tuicemen

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 05:44:27 PM »

I like the Idea, However I don't have a place to try this that I can think of except the basement bathroom
 And Ive been told - NO - automation in there!
WAF you don't want to get that to low! ;)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 05:48:05 PM by Tuicemen »
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ArtClark

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2006, 02:03:11 AM »

I like this Idea very much.  It has one real advantage over ANY single unit setup.  The Status of Light ON / OFF
is not dependant on the Light control module at all.  Extra redundency!  In order to have a "Reporting" failure
you would have to Fail both units.  I can see, now, how to check the motion sensor from the light as well so
if an unknowing or uncaring person (I'm sure you can guess who I might mean.) puts a cover over the motion
sensor, (Like a box or something like that) then the same idea will let you know if you manually turn on the light
and get no motion light response.  Honestly, I never would have thought of this simple and EFFECTIVE method.

Thanks.
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TakeTheActive

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2006, 01:30:36 AM »

I like this Idea very much.  It has one real advantage over ANY single unit setup.  The Status of Light ON / OFF is not dependant on the Light control module at all.  Extra redundency!  ...Honestly, I never would have thought of this simple and EFFECTIVE method.

Thanks.

Thanks for your feedback ArtClark! It now appears that *THREE* folks realize the P O T E N T I A L of my idea. ;)

Hey Puck! BTW, thanks Tuicemen for the GLOW tip! :D

Garage Light & Motion Sensor Set-Up
Oh well... No one said that being a GENIUS was easy!  :P
« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 01:33:43 AM by TakeTheActive »
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azzar0

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2007, 11:55:14 AM »

TTA,

Do you use flags in your macro at all to control the dim length?

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TakeTheActive

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2007, 01:14:51 PM »


Do you use flags in your macro at all to control the dim length?

No. This idea was originally implemented on my CM11A/AH v1.32 (which doesn't have Flags).
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svcguy

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Re: [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!]
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 12:01:49 AM »

Excellent Idea -:)

I have an idea on how to go one step further. One of my only [major] snags with my X10 system is that local control of my WS467s gets AHP "out of sync" with the actual state of lights in my house. Not wanting to spend lots of $ for true 2-way modules, I began to think. Your idea led to mine, so here it goes:

Theory:
You note that you use your sensors in "DARK-during-the-daytime" areas. Well, the inside of my overhead light fixtures are "DARK-during-the-daytime" areas. Most of my overhead light fixtures have marble or frosted glass bowls. What if I was to use a MS16A inside my overhead light fixture? The +1 code would trigger a macro to update the status of the module within AHP.

Concerns:
  • Initial temperature testing shows that my fixtures tend to be ~110degF at the hottest. http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/MS16A states the operating temp max to be 122degF. Is this too close to the max?
  • If the module is ok, what about the batteries?

Related Ideas:
  • Possibly still using the motion sensor to sense motion if it can see through the glass bowl.

I haven't tested this yet, but I figure I'd open it up to the community to test/comment/utterly destroy/tweak/etc.  I will begin my testing when my new set of WS467s arrive :)

Andy
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 12:03:55 AM by svcguy »
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