X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: lflorack on February 24, 2010, 10:08:02 PM
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I have two garage lights and a front door light. The front door is on one circuit with a two-way switch and the two garage lights are on another circuit with a single switch. All three lights are controlled by LM15A's -- all with the same address and house code.
The problem is that although all three lights turn on just fine -- and the porch light always turns off just fine, the garage lights only randomly turn off via X10. This is true if the off command comes from AHP (plugged into a XTB-IIR) or a Palm Pad HR12A. The only way to get the lights off is via the wall switch -- AND if I turn the lights off via the wall switch and then back on within two minutes or so, they come back on. I have to wait 2+ minutes and this resets the Socket Rockets.
Probably a a noise problem somewhere, right?
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What type of bulb in the Socket Rocket?
It will stay off if you wait long enough correct? If it could never be turned off and instantly went on then it would be blown out.
The two minute wait maybe the power supply in the Socket Rocket discharging. Though two minutes sounds kind of long. If the bulb is near the 150 watt limit or the whole assembly is in a fairly tight enclosure. The Socket Rocket maybe getting hot and the electronics in it maybe getting effected by the heat.
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What type of bulb in the Socket Rocket?
It will stay off if you wait long enough correct? If it could never be turned off and instantly went on then it would be blown out.
The two minute wait maybe the power supply in the Socket Rocket discharging. Though two minutes sounds kind of long. If the bulb is near the 150 watt limit or the whole assembly is in a fairly tight enclosure. The Socket Rocket maybe getting hot and the electronics in it maybe getting effected by the heat.
Thanks for your response Brian.
The bulbs in all three lights are either 60 or 100 watt incandecent bulbs (they're all the same I just can't remember which they are).
Yes, If I turn the wall switch off long enough for the offending light, it stays off. If I turn the wall switch off and back on before about 2 minutes, the light comes back on. Although they are on two seperate circuits (the offending lights are on a single switch and the one that always works is on a two-way switch), all three lights are outside and in identical fixtures -- with open bottoms. There is plenty of air flow and it's currently in the 20-30 degree (F) range.
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AND if I turn the lights off via the wall switch and then back on within two minutes or so, they come back on. I have to wait 2+ minutes and this resets the Socket Rockets.
Its has been a few years since I played with my Socket Rockets, but I thought turning their power 'off' and then back 'on', puts them into Learn mode, no?
Even though the Socket Rockets aren't suppose to have a manual override, it almost reads like your does (a new feature?). I mean, turning power 'off' and then right back 'on', might be triggering a manual override (a way to turn the light 'on', without X10 commands).
Just thinking out loud. :'
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I just tested two LM15A Socket Rockets on my test setup.
One from 2005 DC:05E22 and one from 2009 DC:09K45.
Both if On and you turned off the power for even two seconds stayed Off.
If they where Off flipping the power On and Off did not turn them On.
Tested for local control and as expected toggling the load [unscrew the bulb and tighten again] did not light them.
As Walt2 said the first thirty seconds it can be reprogrammed but if you send an On to the address it is set to. It just turns On. I even turned power On and sent a different code twice then the one it was set to. It just turned On and kept the originally programmed code.
Do you have any way of testing for noise or signal levels?
This sounds like a unique problem as the Socket Rockets have to be off for two minutes to reset them. The only other thing that comes to mind is they are failing, but we have never seen this type of failure reported yet.
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Hmmmm. Thanks for running those tests.
I don't currently have any way to test for noise. I really think it's noise related OR something that I just thought of as I was trying to figure out why only these two Socket Rockets have this issue. In addition to the very real possibility of it being a noise problem, it may be some sort of wiring issue on this particular circuit. I'll have to do some logical trouble shooting to narrow this down but I have a Home Theater system that I think is on the same circuit as the offending outside lights/socket rockets (part of what I need to confirm). It includes all the equipment shown in the 'Home Theater' room on this diagram: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4343410503_505e5d0313_o.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4343410503_505e5d0313_o.jpg) All electrical connections for the system (except the Sub woofer) are made through the APC J15BLK Conditioner/UPS -- which is connected through an ACT AF120 Plugin Filter Module to help with X10 transmission issues.
Whenever a significant power fluctuation of any kind occurs, the APC J15BLK Conditioner/UPS will take over and supply 'clean' power to the A/V system. When it does this, it beeps and I can hear the APC's fan fire up, the front panel lights come on etc. Anyway, it's done this fairly often (nothing to do with adding X10 to the house). Further, it has done it sometimes for a few seconds when I turn on the garage or deck lights -- manually or via X10). Sometimes it does it for no apparent reason and I have often thought I need to have an electrician come in and look over the whole house to see what's up electrically. This instability may indicate some issue with the wiring and therefore the root of the X10 issue we're discussing here. It may have nothing to do with my issue but I'm not sure. It may also be that the APC unit is being overprotective too.
I may also have to buy a noise meter too. Until then, I'll have to attack this logically and determine what's on the offending circuit.
Thanks for the feedback and ideas. I'll keep working at it.
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-:)
As I said earlier, I decided to attack the problem logically. In this case, I decided to filter the largest remaining signal suckers and noise makers before trying to work on anything else. So, in addition to having an ACT AF120 Plugin Filter Module on my main Home Theater system, I added one each to my secondary home theater system and to the home office system -- both in the den. The den A/V system includes a TV, HDDVR, APC battery backup/filter and a DVD player. The computer system includes my router, a 1TB drive, a laptop, computer screen, printer, speakers/sub-woofer, wireless phone and several chargers for cell, universal remote, Bluetooth earpiece, etc. etc.
Since putting in the two new ACT AF120 Plugin Filter Modules, the outside lights have worked flawlessly. :)% It's too soon to see if this will continue over time but it's a good start! I'll let you know.
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Glad to see that progress is being made.
One thing I can say is my APC BX1000 UPS has a power line noise and spike suppressor. It is a BIG signal sucker. In my case I have a Smarthome 10 amp FilterLinc on mine.
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Glad to see that progress is being made.
One thing I can say is my APC BX1000 UPS has a power line noise and spike suppressor. It is a BIG signal sucker. In my case I have a Smarthome 10 amp FilterLinc on mine.
Me too! :) The offending lights worked well again this morning -- so that's good!
Until I put the three ACT AF120 Plugin Filter Modules I had two UPS/line noise filters in the system as well as a whole lot of A/V equipment and chargers without filters. Even if their addition doesn't solve my outside light issues, it'll make the X10 environment much cleaner.
BTW, I went with the 15 amp filters because there's quite a number of items to be covered and I thought it'd be best to go larger. Did you choose the Smarthome 10 filter for it's size or some other reason?
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Picked the 10 amp Filterlinc as the BX1000 didn't draw more than 10 amps and it has a unfiltered pass through outlet. That was used for my 2412S Insteon PLM with ISY99i interface. I do both X10 and Insteon in my mixed setup.
The ACT AF120 is a nice filter and has a user replaceable external fuse. The FilterLincs are fused but it is internal and soldered to the filters PC Board.
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Picked the 10 amp Filterlinc as the BX1000 didn't draw more than 10 amps and it has a unfiltered pass through outlet. That was used for my 2412S Insteon PLM with ISY99i interface. I do both X10 and Insteon in my mixed setup.
The ACT AF120 is a nice filter and has a user replaceable external fuse. The FilterLincs are fused but it is internal and soldered to the filters PC Board.
Thanks Brian. My only issue with the AF 120's is that thay are fairly large and because of that, they are hard to place sometimes.
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In four AHP timer events since I put the additional filters (AF120's) in play, the garage lights have have turned on properly each time but failed to turn off two of the four scheduled 'events'. It requires a manual wall switch turn-off for a minute or so (not two minutes like I have said previously). Obviously, I have not found the solution yet. I'll now start looking into all the electrical items on the same circuit as the offending lights to see if I can narrow the offenders down. :(
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Sounds like you are getting closer and your troubleshooting is beginning to pay off.
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Sounds like you are getting closer and your troubleshooting is beginning to pay off.
Seems like...
I did a little more investigation last night and found some additional information that I'm persuing, but it has me a bit puzzled. You'll remember that my setup is as follows: Two garage lights and a front door light. The front door light is on one circuit with a two-way switch and the two garage lights are on another circuit with a single switch. All three lights are controlled by LM15A's -- all with the same address and house code.
Last night, I discovered that when I turned all three warm lights off (same address):
- Although the porch light always went off, it would sometimes flicker once before it did.
- However, the two garage lights always flickered and would either stay on (most of the time) or turn off (once in a while) Sometimes the garage lights will go off for a second or two and then come back on.
So, the garage lights always either flicker or flash on/off before finally deciding to stay on or go out -- mostly stay on. Thinking that I may have some either wiring or X10 address/noise conflict going on, late last night, I decided to turn off the power to the porch light (wall switch - not X10) and wait to see what happened for the morning timer event. This morning -- without the porch light powered up, the garage lights turned on and off fine. No flickering. No indecision. I'll try a few more days but if the test works, the next steps will be to change the X10 address of the porch light and put it on a different timer. If it's a wiring issue, that may not work.
So does anyone have any idea why the symptoms I'm describing are occurring?
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May sound strange, but have you tried flipping both of the two way switches to their other positions? That would again power the light but through each switches other set of contacts and the other traveler wire.
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May sound strange, but have you tried flipping both of the two way switches to their other positions? That would again power the light but through each switches other set of contacts and the other traveler wire.
Hmmmm. Not a bad idea. I'll throw that into the troubleshooting mix. Thanks. Let you know.
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What about sending off commands more than once in your macros?
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If the bulb is near the 150 watt limit or the whole assembly is in a fairly tight enclosure. The Socket Rocket maybe getting hot and the electronics in it maybe getting effected by the heat.
You were the first one to respond about my problem, Brian and it appears that you were right. I apologize for not checking further back then. Even though the problem lights are outside in the cold, open at the bottom and only 100 watts, when I checked tonight, the bulbs were quite hot. So hot in fact, I believe the heat was affecting the Socket Rockets. The only thing I can figure out is that the lights bulbs are hanging under the Socket Rockets and the heat was rising - and was trapped -- into the top of the light globe. It also may have something to do with the clear light bulbs that were in there too. I dunno but they sure were hot.
Anyway, I replaced all three bulbs with 26 watt CFLs because they are all I had on hand and because they would likely run cooler. After several hours of testing with the new bulbs, the lights turned on and off every single time without fail or hesitation. It's probably risky to say it's solved but I have a good feeling about this fix.
Thanks again to you Brian and to everyone who shared ideas.
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I hope it continues to work for you.
I had a bad Socket Rocket and took it apart. There isn't much metal on the heatsink used to keep the triac cool and the boards are sandwiched together so tightly. I almost though they would touch each other.
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I hope it continues to work for you.
I had a bad Socket Rocket and took it apart. There isn't much metal on the heatsink used to keep the triac cool and the boards are sandwiched together so tightly. I almost though they would touch each other.
I do too! :'
Since the (3) incandescent bulbs (100 watt, clear, decorative) were outside in the cold and the 'globes' are completely open at the bottom, I was very surprised at just how hot the bulbs and socket rockets were. Maybe it has something to do with the particular bulbs I was using or the fact that the bulbs are under the socket rockets (rising/trapped heat). I don't know, but I could even smell the hot plastic of the socket rockets. When I took the bulbs out, the socket rockets were so hot, I couldn't even handle them for quite a while -- let alone the bulbs. The replacement CFL's are 26 watt (100 watt equivalent) and they run much cooler.
I'm pretty convinced this will work but will let you know in any case. Assuming that this is the fix for this last issue, my current system is now very stable. I can now expand the system again! :)
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Well heat does rise and bulb down does add to the heat.
The Insteon short lived SocketLinc Dimmer. Had a requirement to be mounted bulb up only. As upside down produced too much heat in the module.
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:)% #:)
Brian H's suggestion that my bulbs and Socket Rockets were getting too hot was correct and has been confirmed. Replacing the previous bulbs with new cooler ones has proven to be effective! All is well now.