X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Wish List => Topic started by: FUNLOVERALWAYS on April 23, 2008, 05:30:15 PM
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One of the features X-10 Appliance or end device module needs to have is to tell the Active Pro software if the appliance is in on condition or off condition. Right now you assume that your device may be on or off depending upon what you are seeing in the Active pro but in reality this may not be the case becuase someone may have turned on the device manually.
If someone turns on an appliance manually, there is no way you can tell the current status of the appliance. That really kills the home automation concept because I want to develop macros that would trigger based upon current on and off condition of the appliance as well.
For example, my kids never turn off the lights in the play room, basemet etc. I want to see from my office if the kids room lights are on or off remotely. This way I can turn them off remotely and save a ton of money in electricity bills. By teh same token Active pro appliance module status should get updated basd upon the current condition of the appliance attached to it.
If the appliance module can have an on and off switch and if it can triiger a signal back to the Active pro software notifying it of its current status, I think the entire X-10 solution jump a leap to next generation home automation.
I understand theere could be ways around to this problem such as each room can have a remote unit to turn on or off an appliance, but that is not a praactical solution.
If the appliance module can detect that there is an electricity flow going through it due to someone manually turning on the appliance then we got kick a__ solution.
Thoughts?
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Do you just want an AM14A ???
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I read the description of AM14A as per your suggestion but I am still not sure it can do what I described above.
If I manually turn on a device that is connected to AC outlet via AM14A, are you telling me it will update the applicance status in the Active Home Pro software? When I say manually I mean turning on the device using device on/off switch. Please advice.
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If the AM14A is off and you cycle the local loads power switch off and back on. It will turn on; but my test shows it does not send a status change back over the power line if not sent a status request. Also there is no way to locally turn it back off. Some X10 compatible modules from other vendors do send a change of status when actuated. Mostly wall switches not plug in type modules.
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If I manually turn on a device that is connected to AC outlet via AM14A, are you telling me it will update the applicance status in the Active Home Pro software? When I say manually I mean turning on the device using device on/off switch. Please advice.
I will have to go back and dig out the old documentation. There are different levels of status returns, and one might need to set the highest level.
However, from what I remember, it does. That's because I remember AH2 would actually display a pop-up, and that could not happen, unless a status was sent from the AM14A back to the CM14A. BTW, the LM14A would send back a status if the light bulb burned out while 'on', too, and AH2 would display a pop-up warning.
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Can you recommend any other vendor units either wallmount or plugable that can sendmanual status update. This is a killer feature that I must have.
I want to create a clear distinction between applianceon off status vs. the X-10 Module status to develop intelligent macros that would act in a certain way.
Thanks
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Can you recommend any other vendor units either wallmount or plugable that can sendmanual status update. This is a killer feature that I must have.
I want to create a clear distinction between applianceon off status vs. the X-10 Module status to develop intelligent macros that would act in a certain way.
Thanks
Refering to your last sentence: I don't think there is a module that will perform this function, assuming one of the conditions you want to detect is if an appliance/light might be turned OFF locally even though the Appliance Module is ON (?). ???
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Can you recommend any other vendor units either wallmount or plugable that can sendmanual status update. This is a killer feature that I must have.
The Insteon ICON 2876SB On/Off Wall Switch sends its X10 Address and state onto the power lines when manually controlled. I use many of these in my home and AHP reflects the correct state as well as the ability to trigger macros when manually turned on or off. There may be others that do the same, but these are the only ones I have experience with.
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ok thanks. Kind of expensive though http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?id=100530077&jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&marketID=401&productId=100530077&locStoreNum=8125&langId=-1&linktype=product&storeId=10051&ddkey=THDSiteMap
$39 per switch
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Same price at Smarthome.
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Refering to your last sentence: I don't think there is a module that will perform this function, assuming one of the conditions you want to detect is if an appliance/light might be turned OFF locally even though the Appliance Module is ON (?). ???
The highest bit in the status returned by an X10 two-way, is 1xxxxxxx if the load is 'on', or 0xxxxxxx if the load is 'off' (or bulb burned out).
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Refering to your last sentence: I don't think there is a module that will perform this function, assuming one of the conditions you want to detect is if an appliance/light might be turned OFF locally even though the Appliance Module is ON (?). ???
The highest bit in the status returned by an X10 two-way, is 1xxxxxxx if the load is 'on', or 0xxxxxxx
if the load is 'off' (or bulb burned out).
Walt2
OK, so if my table light plugged in to a 2-way appliance module is turned OFF at the socket and I then turn ON the AM14A appliance module with AHP, will my AM14A return a status of ON, or OFF?
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Walt2
OK, so if my table light plugged in to a 2-way appliance module is turned OFF at the socket and I then turn ON the AM14A appliance module with AHP, will my AM14A return a status of ON, or OFF?
The AM14A will return a status of "module ON, load OFF".
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Thanks!
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Walt2
OK, so if my table light plugged in to a 2-way appliance module is turned OFF at the socket and I then turn ON the AM14A appliance module with AHP, will my AM14A return a status of ON, or OFF?
The AM14A will return a status of "module ON, load OFF".
Walt2:
None of the AM14A or PAM22 I've tested report anything but Load ON, even with nothing plugged in.
(The LM14A 2-way Lamp Modules work reasonably well at reporting the Load status.)
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I had an LM14A report it was on but bulb burned out. That was with an old CM11A and AH software. I believe by default it will not. It looked like AH and the CM11A sent some commends to change its response at initialization.
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I had an LM14A report it was on but bulb burned out. That was with an old CM11A and AH software. I believe by default it will not. It looked like AH and the CM11A sent some commends to change its response at initialization.
Once the LM14A and AM14A are sent an Extended Configure command, they will reply with an Extended Status Ack when they receive an X10 On or Off or Extended Preset command. However they do not return an Ack if the load changes, e.g., if an attached lamp is manually switched.
ActiveHome Pro (and the old ActiveHome) send the Extended Configure at startup, or when you drag one of these modules into a room. (You can see it in the Activity Monitor).
ActiveHome Pro's Activity Monitor unfortunately doesn't interpret the Extended Status response properly and provides no useful information about load status, even with the LM14A which sends the correct load status.
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Thank you for the added data Charles.
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I had an LM14A report it was on but bulb burned out. That was with an old CM11A and AH software. I believe by default it will not. It looked like AH and the CM11A sent some commends to change its response at initialization.
Once the LM14A and AM14A are sent an Extended Configure command, they will reply with an Extended Status Ack when they receive an X10 On or Off or Extended Preset command. However they do not return an Ack if the load changes, e.g., if an attached lamp is manually switched.
Like I said, I know that AH2/CM14A will do a popup window if the load changes (ie, a bulb burns out or the lamp is manually turned 'off'). I remember testing that during the beta test for the AH2/CM14A. It took X10 a few tries to get it right. However, there is no way that could happen at all unless the LM14A could return an asynchronous, unsolicited, status.
Possibly, there are different firmware versions in LM14A's?? ?? ???
Honestly, I played very little with my AM14A since then, having never really found a practical need for it. I would have never found a practical use for the LM14A either, if not for its extended dim commands.
However, the real problem with any of this, is that there doesn't seem to be any available macro conditional in AHP, which allows one to "test" the load status. In other words, it seems that AHP just throws that info away, whenever any status is returned.
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I had an LM14A report it was on but bulb burned out. That was with an old CM11A and AH software. I believe by default it will not. It looked like AH and the CM11A sent some commends to change its response at initialization.
Once the LM14A and AM14A are sent an Extended Configure command, they will reply with an Extended Status Ack when they receive an X10 On or Off or Extended Preset command. However they do not return an Ack if the load changes, e.g., if an attached lamp is manually switched.
Like I said, I know that AH2/CM14A will do a popup window if the load changes (ie, a bulb burns out or the lamp is manually turned 'off'). I remember testing that during the beta test for the AH2/CM14A. It took X10 a few tries to get it right. However, there is no way that could happen at all unless the LM14A could return an asynchronous, unsolicited, status.
Possibly, there are different firmware versions in LM14A's?? ?? ???
With X-10, that's almost a given.
Honestly, I played very little with my AM14A since then, having never really found a practical need for it. I would have never found a practical use for the LM14A either, if not for its extended dim commands.
However, the real problem with any of this, is that there doesn't seem to be any available macro conditional in AHP, which allows one to "test" the load status. In other words, it seems that AHP just throws that info away, whenever any status is returned.
If you look at the LM14A returned extended status in the AHP Activity Monitor you'll see that instead of displaying the actual data byte, they've filtered out the load status bit and converted the extended preset level (0x00-0x2E) to the 0-210 (0x00-0xD2) brightness scale of a standard dimmer module.
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Just to add some more here, the LM14A and AM14A will also send a status request command out when first powered up.
That could be used two ways.
First, it could be used to support an automatic new module "add". Basically, software could be triggered to allow a "new module found" wizard, if indeed it is a new module (a previously unused unit/house code).
Second, it could be used to restore the module's expected status after a power outage (blackout). Basically, software could respond by telling the module that it is suppose to be 'on', or 'off' right now, and even at what dim level.
However, I don't think that AHP supports either. ::)
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If you look at the LM14A returned extended status in the AHP Activity Monitor you'll see that instead of displaying the actual data byte, they've filtered out the load status bit and converted the extended preset level (0x00-0x2E) to the 0-210 (0x00-0xD2) brightness scale of a standard dimmer module.
So, you think it isn't just the Activity Monitor showing the wrong data, but that AHP itself is using the wrong data?
BTW, I am pretty disappointed with the Activity Monitor doing this. For me, the Activity Monitor is a debugging tool, and if it doesn't faithfully report the actual powerline/RF activity, without corruption, it isn't a very good debug tool. Reminds me of a HAL 9000. :D
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One of the features X-10 Appliance or end device module needs to have is to tell the Active Pro software if the appliance is in on condition or off condition. Right now you assume that your device may be on or off depending upon what you are seeing in the Active pro but in reality this may not be the case becuase someone may have turned on the device manually.
If someone turns on an appliance manually, there is no way you can tell the current status of the appliance. That really kills the home automation concept because I want to develop macros that would trigger based upon current on and off condition of the appliance as well.
For example, my kids never turn off the lights in the play room, basemet etc. I want to see from my office if the kids room lights are on or off remotely. This way I can turn them off remotely and save a ton of money in electricity bills. By teh same token Active pro appliance module status should get updated basd upon the current condition of the appliance attached to it.
FunLover,
The Smarthome ICON Appliance Module 2856SB will send a X10 On/Off notification when the local load is activated/de-activated. I use this in my family room as a 3-way for my lamps. If one lamp is activated 2856D (I'm using dimmers) it sends out an X10 On and the 2856D across the room turns it's lamp on as well. Also plays well with AHP.
At $29 it's still not cheap...I think most people wait for the 20% off sales.
In regard to your second question - a device that will detect and communicate current draw by the load. I don't know of any single device that can do both. I suppose you could use a Hall effect sensor or switch and a PSC01 to communicate the current draw status. Seems like a lot of hardware.
Boiler
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If you look at the LM14A returned extended status in the AHP Activity Monitor you'll see that instead of displaying the actual data byte, they've filtered out the load status bit and converted the extended preset level (0x00-0x2E) to the 0-210 (0x00-0xD2) brightness scale of a standard dimmer module.
So, you think it isn't just the Activity Monitor showing the wrong data, but that AHP itself is using the wrong data?
I assume AHP converts all dimmer data to a common scale for storing it, and then can use a common function to display the brightness bar on the icon. The Activity Monitor is just displaying the data after the conversion.
BTW, I am pretty disappointed with the Activity Monitor doing this. For me, the Activity Monitor is a debugging tool, and if it doesn't faithfully report the actual powerline/RF activity, without corruption, it isn't a very good debug tool. Reminds me of a HAL 9000. :D
I've been pretty disappointed with the ActiveHome Pro project as a whole, both hardware and software.