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[dhouston]

The subject is the title of an article in this morning's NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/fashion/nest-thermostat-glitch-battery-dies-software-freeze.html?ref=technology

I thought this interesting.

Making matters worse is the lack of recourse. Buried deep in Nest’s 8,000-word service agreement is a section called “Disputes and Arbitration,” which prohibits customers from suing the company or joining a class-action suit. Instead, disputes are settled through arbitration.

[Dan1]

My local HVAC company removed the Nest Thermostats from their own offices after constant problems with the units. I have a Honeywell TH6320WF1005/U wi-fi thermostat. I can disconnect it from the wi-fi and it will work like a regular thermostat, no problem.

[bkenobi]

I use the TH8320 non-wifi thermostat but have been looking to upgrade to the WiFi version.  If I do, I won't be connecting to the cloud!  I have some level of trust in Honeywell's intent, but I don't trust that software problems or others (outside the company) can't cause issues for me.  I'll keep full control of my heating needs thank you.

[Noam]

I had the Honeywell TH8000-series thermostat for about 10 years, and I really loved it - except it wasn't web-connected.
Over the summer, I replaced it with a Honeywell RTH9580WF, which is Wi-Fi connected, and has just about all the same features as the one it replaced (the interface is different, and it handles holds a bit differently, but I'm okay with those things).

Honeywell's web portal is okay, and it is much faster to change the weekly scheduling there than it is on the unit itself. The mobile app lets you do almost everything you can at the unit, too.
The one thing I felt I was missing, though, was the ability to schedule a "one-off" change to take place at some point in the future. I can make a change *now*, and have it stay until a specified time, but I can't tell it "keep running normally until 4 PM, and then set the A/C higher."

After poking around on the web a bit, I found someone who had written a Python script to do something similar to what I wanted. His script was making changes to the thermostat (sending commands by logging into the website and spoofing the web form that gets submitted), triggered by a button on his bedside. I used his code as a base to write an equivalent script in PHP, which can sent commands to make changes on the thermostat.

The next step was scheduling. I wanted to be able to use my Google Calendar to schedule a change, and have the thermostat change at the specified time. That was actually inspired by something I'd seen years ago to schedule X10 commands using the Google Calendar. At first, I tried writing a script that would parse my calendar every X minutes, and run the commands, but that wasn't working the way I wanted it to.

What I finally came up with was much simpler. My Google Calendar can be set to send an e-mail notification before (or at the start of) an event. I created a sub-calendar just for my thermostat, and I set up notifications to occur as the event was starting. The description of the event contained the commands for the thermostat (heat setting, A/C setting, fan, stop time, etc). I then created a rule in my Gmail to forward those calendar notifications from the Thermostat calendar to an address at my hosted domain, which is then piped to my script. The script parses the e-mail, finds the commands (does an error check to make sure that it is really a thermostat command e-mail, and not spam), and then sends the commands to the thermostat (still by spoofing a login to the Honeywell portal).

I can now set a "hold for the day" for days I'm not at work - without having to remember to do it that morning (or the night before). I can set the "wife is coming home from work early" settings, and my biggest reason - "pre-cool the house, and then turn off the A/C during the utility company's "peak savings" events.

[bkenobi]

If the 8500 series was compatible with my furnace, I would use it as it's been on sale at HD recently.  Unfortunately, it does not work with my setup (need 3H/2C and S1/S2 inputs).  Thus, I have to use the TH8320WF (WF version of the current TS).

Also, I found a code on GitHub that appears to work with all Honeywell WiFi models that allows for local control without going through the Honeywell web site.  I haven't tested it since I don't have the TS yet, but I much prefer local control to relying on network connectivity etc.

[dhouston]

...I much prefer local control to relying on network connectivity etc.

I agree. I expect we'll see numerous cloudbursts with consequences similar to, if not worse, than this empty Nest episode. And, if it's WiFi you should be able to access it relatively securely via your router from out there, without needing any company's cloud.

[bkenobi]

I think there's going to be a different issue at some point with these cloud services.  They market themselves on a product, be it security, automation, video surveillance, comfort, etc.  However, they sell the products once and assume they will have people locked in forever with their non-transferable cloud service at a nominal monthly cost.  If the client count doesn't exceed some break even number, they will become insolvent at which point they go bankrupt or get purchased by Google/Apple/Microsoft.  If purchased, the user base is stuck with whatever the new owner tells them they are allowed to do with their purchase and how much they get to pay/month.  If bankrupt, the user loses the functionality of the product in many cases.

If the product is usable locally and the cloud goes away, the user only loses a benefit but not the entire usefulness of the product.  So, I don't personally purchase products that are only useful on a cloud without local control/non-cloud use as the main feature.

[dave w]

If the product is usable locally and the cloud goes away, the user only loses a benefit but not the entire usefulness of the product.  So, I don't personally purchase products that are only useful on a cloud without local control/non-cloud use as the main feature.

Everyone, everywhere, should be forced to read these words. There are a lot of bad people out there who would love to "crash the net". Besides, didn't this administration put in, or at least wanted to put in, an ON-OFF switch?

[dhouston]

There are a lot of bad people out there who would love to "crash the net".

And there are a lot of companies out there (e.g. the owners of Nest who no longer profess "Don't Be Evil") who want to collect the data generated for their Big Data Analytics after which they seed the cloud with directed ads.

[dave w]

Wow. Hadn't even considered that aspect.

[dhouston]

There's a Washington Post article on this aspect of smart homes (& smart cars) and cloudy skies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/01/14/when-is-it-worth-giving-up-your-data-americans-arent-quite-sure/

[dhouston]

Clouds may not be the worst problem when it comes to collecting data on your household.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/01/20/your-internet-provider-is-turning-into-a-data-hungry-tech-company-consumer-groups-warn/

[bkenobi]

As a techie, I often get confused responses from people when they find out I don't (and never have had) any form of a social media account (MySpace, Facebook, Google+, Twitter, etc).  I've never understood how people have a distrust for a store asking for an ID to purchase certain products but have no issue posting to the world that they are 24, female, single, and will be out of the country on vacation for the next 2 weeks.   

[dhouston]

I don't (and never have had) any form of a social media account (MySpace, Facebook, Google+, Twitter, etc). 

About 30 years ago, a friend sugested we start an Internet chatroom. He would round up financing while I did the techie stuff. I turned him down because my health was already a major impediment but also because I couldn't imagine that any sizable segment of the population would ever want to participate in such a silly activity. 

[bkenobi]

Pfft, that "internets" thing will never work!