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I just installed three more wall switches for the kitchen and dining room, a total of 3 switches and an RR501 transceiver.
House Code: D
Main Light: D2
Overhead: D3
Dining Room: D4
Macro D9 ON: D2 50%, D3 50%, D4 50%
Macro D9 OFF: D2 OFF, D3 OFF, D4 OFF
When I control everything via a Slimline Controller (D2/D3/D4), everything is fine. When I control everything via the CM15a, everything is fine. So far, so good.
I have created 2 macros. "ON" which turns on all 3 lights and dim to 50% (D9 ON) and "OFF" which turns all lights off (D9 OFF) and changed the RR501 to the 9-16 range. When I control everything via the CM15a on the computer from the other side of the house, everything works fine. When I try to run the macro (D9 ON) from the Slimline Switch only the Main Kitchen light turns on, everything else stays off!? When I later turn them all on manually and issue "D9 OFF" on the slimline controller, all turn off.
I have a lot of X10 in the house and use 3 different house codes (C/D/E) for different parts of the house. Usually 1-8 is reserved for the modules and 9-16 for macros. Also I have a Slimline Controller at the entrance (housecode C) with a macro (C11) to turn on all kinds of lights in the house on different house codes. However, again, the overheads (D2) stay dark and the Dining Room (D4) fires up, dims to 0, fires up again and then dims again. Very weird.
Any suggestions?
[TTA Edit: Combine 2 consecutive posts.]
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I have created 2 macros. "ON" which turns on all 3 lights and dim to 50% (D9 ON) and "OFF" which turns all lights off (D9 OFF) and changed the RR501 to the 9-16 range.
You can't select the unit code range on the RR501. You can only select to have it's built in appliance module respond to either Unit Code 1 or 9.
However, again, the overheads (D2) stay dark and the Dining Room (D4) fires up, dims to 0, fires up again and then dims again. Very weird.
From what you described, it sounds like your problems are occurring because your AHP Macros are being triggered by both RF (via CM15A) and PLC (via RR501). When using multiple back-to-back DIMMING commands, you might want to try a small delay between them (start with 1 second).
When I control everything via the CM15a, everything is fine.
If AHP & the CM15A are accessing your lights OK, why are you using a second Transceiver?
If the answer is remote range, then you would be better of relocating your CM15A (if possible).
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What kind of wall switches are you using?
You may want to try this for your ON macro...
Fill in your own House/Unit codes
First House/Unit Code On
Delay 1 sec
First House/Unit Code Dim
Delay 3 Sec
Second House/Unit Code On
Delay 1 sec
Second House/Unit Code Dim
Delay 3 sec
and so on...
I found on my WS467 switches and my WS12A switches that if I issue a dim command and thats all, it would work some times and some times not. If I issue a ON command first, pause then issue the dim level I want, it worked 100% of the time.
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The one dim-able module I have played with ignored the brighten & dim commands if it was off. I had to first issue an on command then brighten or dim.
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[Adding onto Puck's and KDR's replies]
I just installed three more wall switches for the kitchen and dining room, a total of 3 switches and an RR501 transceiver.
The more details you provide upfront, the better / more accurate the answer you'll receive.
As KDR stated, please list the names and model numbers of *ALL* the X10 equipment you believe is involved in your problem in your first post.
When I control everything via a Slimline Controller (D2/D3/D4), everything is fine. When I control everything via the CM15a, everything is fine. So far, so good.
For clarity, do you mean:
- When I attempt to control each light (D2/D3/D4) individually via the Slimline Controller OR the CM15A , each light independently works fine.
...changed the RR501 to the 9-16 range...
As Puck already mentioned, this only controls the UnitCode of the built-in Appliance Module.
I have created 2 macros. "ON" which turns on all 3 lights and dim to 50% (D9 ON) and "OFF" which turns all lights off (D9 OFF) and . When I control everything via the CM15a on the computer from the other side of the house, everything works fine.
Here's where I get confused. ?Everything? What do you mean?
- The INDIVIDUAL commands *AND* the MACROs work fine?
. - Or JUST the INDIVIDUAL commands (D2/D3/D4)?
I believe that Puck may be on the right track with:
From what you described, it sounds like your problems are occurring because your AHP Macros are being triggered by both RF (via CM15A) and PLC (via RR501).
When I try to run the macro (D9 ON) from the Slimline Switch only the Main Kitchen light turns on, everything else stays off!? When I later turn them all on manually and issue "D9 OFF" on the slimline controller, all turn off.
I have a lot of X10 in the house and use 3 different house codes (C/D/E) for different parts of the house. Usually 1-8 is reserved for the modules and 9-16 for macros. Also I have a Slimline Controller at the entrance (housecode C) with a macro (C11) to turn on all kinds of lights in the house on different house codes. However, again, the overheads (D2) stay dark and the Dining Room (D4) fires up, dims to 0, fires up again and then dims again. Very weird.
Any suggestions?
- Put your MACROs on a separate HouseCode
. - Read: HOUSECODES: By Room or By Module Type or By Function or...? (Read 1711 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg57946#msg57946)
. - Don't allow the CM15A to "Transceive" any HouseCodes that RR501s and/or TM751s are set to
Please keep us informed of your progress. :)
BTW, how long have you been using X10? Please INTRODUCE yourself to the "Community":
GUESTS/LURKERS: Why Don't You Register (and Become NEWBIEs)? (Read 2238 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10503.0)
Thanks in advance! ;)
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...I found on my WS467 switches and my WS12A switches that if I issue a dim command and thats all, it would work some times and some times not. If I issue a ON command first, pause then issue the dim level I want, it worked 100% of the time.
The one dim-able module I have played with ignored the brighten & dim commands if it was off. I had to first issue an on command then brighten or dim.
FWIW, my DIM commands have always worked *WITHOUT* an initial ON. This includes:
- TW523 controlled by a GWBasic program on an IBM XT
. - CM11A controlled by ActiveHome v1.32 on a Toshiba 430CDT/550CDT
. - CM15A controlled by ActiveHome Pro v3.204 on a Dell 4100
-Bill- (of BXVC) and KDR: I don't know if it matters but, are you using ABSOLUTE or RELATIVE DIMs?
-Bill- (of BXVC): "The one dim-able module I have played with..". Exactly how many YEARS have you been using X10? ::) :D
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-Bill- (of BXVC) and KDR: I don't know if it matters but, are you using ABSOLUTE or RELATIVE DIMs?
Apparently from OFF, it doesn't. Well at least as far as the light goes... from AHP well that's another story. ;)
When I tried Relative from OFF:
- according to the activity monitor, AHP sends the house & unit codes address then the DIM xx% Command
- The light module (in AHP) shows the light switch in the OFF position, and the DIM setting to off
When I tried Absolute from OFF:
- according to the activity monitor, AHP sends just the housecode address (not the unit code) then the DIM xx% Command
- The light module (in AHP) shows the light switch in the ON position, and the correct DIM setting
Two ways to get to the same light setting... two different final indications in AHP. :D
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Here is my complete setup:
Housecode C:
Family Room (C)
Transceiver CM15A (C)
Wall Switch WS467 (C1)
Wall Switch WS467 (C2)
Lamp Module LM465 (C3)
Various Macros (C9-C16)
PalmPad Controller (C)
Staircase (C)
Lamp Module LM465 (C4)
EagleEye Motion Sensor (C4)
Living Room (C)
Lamp Module LM465 (C5)
Slimline Wall Controller (for Macros C14/C15/C16)
Housecode D:
Kitchen (D)
Transceiver RR501 (D)
Wall Switch WS467 (D2)
Wall Switch WS467 (D3)
Macros (D9-D15)
Slimline Wall Controller (for Macros D9/D10/D11)
Sunroom (D)
Lamp Module LM465 (D5)
Dining Room (D)
Wall Switch WS467 (D4)
Houscode E:
Bedroom #1 (E)
Transceiver RR501 (E)
Lamp Module LM465 (E2)
Lamp Module LM465 (E3)
Bedroom #2 (E)
Lamp Module LM465 (E4)
Hallway (E)
Eagle Eye Motion Sensor (E5)
Wall Switch WS467 (E5)
Bathroom (E)
Wall Switch WS467 (E6)
Everything works like a charm, EXCEPT the macros in the kitchen. The Slimline Controller works fine on D2-D4 to directly control the lights via the RR501 in the kitchen.
I have set up two "test" macros: D9 to turn on the D2-D4 lights and D10 to turn them all off. D10 works fine, D9 only turns on 1 out of the 3 wall switches. And, again, once I connect my computer to the CM15A and run macros via ActiveHome - no problem at all, works great! I am little at a loss here.
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Your setup certainly helps, thanks.
However, I want to be clear on something here:
And, again, once I connect my computer to the CM15A and run macros via ActiveHome - no problem at all, works great! I am little at a loss here.
Are you saying that when you press the MACRO button manually, all executes OK? Or when you change the MACROs to store on PC (instead of the CM15A) all is OK when triggered from the Slimline Wall Controller?
If it's the first one, then your problem is most likely MACRO trigger collisions. Maybe give the Slimline Wall Controller a unique housecode and change the address of the MACROS to match.
Still not sure why you are using so many Transceivers ???
Houscode E:
Bedroom #1 (E)
Transceiver RR501 (E)
Lamp Module LM465 (E2)
Lamp Module LM465 (E3)
Bedroom #2 (E)
Lamp Module LM465 (E4)
Hallway (E)
Eagle Eye Motion Sensor (E5)
Wall Switch WS467 (E5)
Bathroom (E)
Wall Switch WS467 (E6)
Question: What happens if, while someone is in the bathroom at night, someone else manually turns on the Hallway light? ;)
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Here is my complete setup:
Thanks! That helps.
An aside observation: Are you aware that Motion Sensors use BaseAddress+1 for Dawn/Dusk control and only the ActiveEye MS16 allows it to be disabled without "surgery". (Affects C5 and E6)
Comparison of X10 Motion Sensors (http://www.activehomepro.com/sensors_compare.htm)
---snip---
Housecode D:
Kitchen (D)
Transceiver RR501 (D)
Wall Switch WS467 (D2)
Wall Switch WS467 (D3)
Macros (D9-D15)
Slimline Wall Controller (for Macros D9/D10/D11)
Sunroom (D)
Lamp Module LM465 (D5)
Dining Room (D)
Wall Switch WS467 (D4)
---snip---
I have set up two "test" macros: D9 to turn on the D2-D4 lights and D10 to turn them all off. D10 works fine, D9 only turns on 1 out of the 3 wall switches.
Last time it was D9 ON and D9 OFF - did you change it, or is this just a typo?
And, again, once I connect my computer to the CM15A and run macros via ActiveHome - no problem at all, works great! I am little at a loss here.
I understand that you are possibly anxious, confused, upset, but you have to troubleshoot X10 logically. I believe that Puck and I have already solved your problem, but you didn't "listen". :(
In my original reply, right after your "Any suggestions?", I gave you three - did you follow them?
Unplug *BOTH* RR501s (D and E) and try the MACRO, from the CM15A first and then from the SlimLine - what happens?
I'm not being rude - but I can only help you if you follow the instructions the VOLUNTEERS provide. Take some time today and read the LINKs in my Sig Line and read my FAQ here. X10 is *NOT* Plug-N-Play, but it's not that difficult to learn either.
Best of luck - I'll be looking for your reply (and success!) later on... ;)
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An aside observation: Are you aware that Motion Sensors use BaseAddress+1 for Dawn/Dusk control and only the ActiveEye MS16 allows it to be disabled without "surgery". (Affects C5 and E6)
sprocket: That's the reason behind my question... was wondering if someone could be left s_itting in the dark. ::)
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...was wondering if someone could be left s_itting in the dark. ::)
LOVE IT!
:D
For ArtClark: ROTFLMAO
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Thanks for all your follow-up questions. I really appreciate it.
1. One motion sensor is actually on a totally different housecode (M) to trigger macros - my bad. Sorry. And, yes, I received complaints this morning about the hallway motion sensor, because it'll trigger the bathroom and someone got stuck on the potty in the dark last night ;D I just installed the one last evening and didn't get around to program it.
2. I am using multiple transceivers for the Slimline Controllers, because the RF range of the CM15a is limited (about 20 feet).
3. I will be trying now to run all macros on a unique housecode, as TakeTheActive suggested.
Again, the 'odd' thing is that running the macros from the computer via the CM15a works just fine, but executing the macro D9 ON on the Slimline Controller doesn't turn on lights D3 and D4, but macro D9 OFF to turn them all OFF works just fine (yes, sorry that was a typo earlier). I just don't get it why that happens.
Oof. I just wish there was a function in ActiveHome to display and print out ALL housecodes and assignments.
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Again, the 'odd' thing is that running the macros from the computer via the CM15a works just fine, but executing the macro D9 ON on the Slimline Controller doesn't turn on lights D3 and D4, but macro D9 OFF to turn them all OFF works just fine (yes, sorry that was a typo earlier). I just don't get it why that happens.
That's because the MACRO is only being triggered ONCE... as Martha would say, That's a GOOD Thing. 8)
Oof. I just wish there was a function in ActiveHome to display and print out ALL housecodes and assignments.
There is... Tools / Find Other Computers...
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Puck, what do you mean by "the macro is only being triggered once"?
The "Find other computers" option is nice, but I would prefer something that displays all codes on one page, like
C1 - Light #1
C2 - Macro #1
C3 - Liight #2
D2 - Light #13
etc...
Right now, even the "Find other computers" display is hopelessy cluttered, because I have been playing around with the system for quite some time and a lot of the old settings still show up.
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[oops... almost forgot about this one:]
3. I will be trying now to run all macros on a unique housecode, as TakeTheActive suggested.
This will only work if the CM15A can pick up your signals reliably... but you indicated thats not the case [the extra Transceivers].
Here is a suggestion to try: For your D9 ON MACRO, use a condition flag to prevent unwanted re-entry
Puck, what do you mean by "the macro is only being triggered once"?
Right now, it sounds like your MACRO is being triggered via PLC from the RR501 AND the CM15A via RF. When you press the MACRO button manually, that's the ONLY trigger.
The "Find other computers" option is nice, but I would prefer something that displays all codes on one page
Then try the File / Reports... section.
Right now, even the "Find other computers" display is hopelessy cluttered, because I have been playing around with the system for quite some time and a lot of the old settings still show up.
When you start making a lot of changes from playing around / testing... do the Tools / Clear History now and then.
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3. I will be trying now to run all macros on a unique housecode, as TakeTheActive suggested.
This will only work if the CM15A can pick up your signals reliably... but you indicated thats not the case [the extra Transceivers].
Here is a suggestion to try: For your D9 ON MACRO, use a condition flag to prevent unwanted re-entry
I haven't loaded SMART MACROs yet, so, I'm not familiar with USING conditions [i.e. I have everything running (as reliably as humanly possible, considering what we have to work with ::) ) without using FLAGS]. BUT...
Puck, what do you mean by "the macro is only being triggered once"?
Right now, it sounds like your MACRO is being triggered via PLC from the RR501 AND the CM15A via RF. When you press the MACRO button manually, that's the ONLY trigger.
...Look in your Activity Monitor - If you see (I'm not on my AHP computer right now, but the text should be something like...) D9 ON Received *AND* D9 ON Received RF, you'll continue to have a problem (which is what Puck and I have been saying all along. ;) ).
IIRC, even if you UNCHECK all the HouseCodes, MACROs still get triggered by Received RF commands. :(
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It is my understanding the RF signal from the Slimline Controller gets sent to the RR501, over PLC to the CM15a, which in return executes the macro and issues the PLC commands. The CM15a is set to only recieve RF signals from housecode C, so I don't see any dual trigger here. Hmmm.
Press button on Controller (D9 ON) > RF to RR501 (D) > RR501 sends D9 ON over PLC to CM15a > CM15a says D9 is ON, it's a macro > CM15a sends D2 ON, D3 ON, D4 ON.
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...The CM15a is set to only recieve RF signals from housecode C, so I don't see any dual trigger here. Hmmm.
NEWBIE *REFUSES* to read / follow / answer my replies! :-[ ::) - I'm tired of repeating myself, so, I'm outta here... :(
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TTA beat me too it... but here's my $0.02 anyways...
It is my understanding the RF signal from the Slimline Controller gets sent to the RR501, over PLC to the CM15a, which in return executes the macro and issues the PLC commands. The CM15a is set to only recieve RF signals from housecode C, so I don't see any dual trigger here. Hmmm.
Press button on Controller (D9 ON) > RF to RR501 (D) > RR501 sends D9 ON over PLC to CM15a > CM15a says D9 is ON, it's a macro > CM15a sends D2 ON, D3 ON, D4 ON.
This is the part so many users get confused about... You CANNOT turn off the CM15A's RF... ONLY it's RF to PLC.
sprocket: The large RED letters at not me yell at you (or anyone else)... I'm just trying to bring this to the attention of readers Including X-10... (X-10 please READ the WISH LIST (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?board=29.0) Section).
Once people understand this, hopefully the help & suggestions start making sense. :-
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First of all: I am not a newbie. I have been using X-10 since 2002, but I just got stuck here and asked a question. Just because I never posted in here doesn't mean that I don't know what I am doing. After all, I do have it running in all other rooms with no problems whatsoever. I do listen and read the answers. I just try to get an understanding here WHY it doesn't work.
So, you're saying that the CM15a can pick up the RF signal as well? Hmmm, the Slimline Controller is a good 60 feet away from the CM15a and on another floor. I have been walking around the house with a UR19A remote and my CM15a picks up RF signals here from a maximum of 20 (maybe 30) feet away, certainly not from the kitchen.
I'll monitor the output from the Activity Monitor and post the results in a bit.
Thanks again for your help.
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So, you're saying that the CM15a can pick up the RF signal as well? Hmmm, the Slimline Controller is a good 60 feet away from the CM15a and on another floor.
When you rely on it, it won't pick it up... when you don't want it to, well you know what will happen.... Good Ole Murphy...
I'll monitor the output from the Activity Monitor and post the results in a bit.
That will help understand what's going on. Thanks.
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Event Date/Time Action Data
3 11/11/2006 7:14:54 pm Receive D10 (KI Test Off)
4 11/11/2006 7:14:55 pm Receive D On
5 11/11/2006 7:15:00 pm Macro D3 (Overhead) >> Does NOT turn on
6 11/11/2006 7:15:01 pm Macro D4 (Dining Room)
7 11/11/2006 7:15:01 pm Macro D2 (Main) >> Does NOT turn on
8 11/11/2006 7:15:01 pm Macro D Bright 100(Main, Overhead, Dining Room)
One oddity here: D10 ON is "KI Test ON" (not "KI Test Off") and turns on D3, D4, D2. D4 turns on; D2/D3 don't do anything.
Output when I trigger the macro via AH:
0 11/11/2006 7:22:02 pm Transmit D2 (Main) >> Does NOT turn on
1 11/11/2006 7:22:02 pm Transmit D3 (Overhead) >> Does NOT turn on
2 11/11/2006 7:22:03 pm Transmit D4 (Dining Room)
3 11/11/2006 7:22:03 pm Transmit D On (Main, Overhead, Dining Room)
Humm, so not it doesn't even work in AH. BTW, I have used flags now for the macros to prevent a double trigger.
If I trigger D2, D3, D4 manually via a remote, it works fine, so the RR501 works fine - it's the PLC from the C15a to D2 and D3 that doesn't work. I have a ton of macros around the house and no problems whatsoever, it's just the darn kitchen. Maybe I have a signal sucker here somewhere, fridge or the microwave.
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If I trigger D2, D3, D4 manually via a remote, it works fine, so the RR501 works fine - it's the PLC from the C15a to D2 and D3 that doesn't work.
OK... try this:
In your macro, don't turn D2, D3, D4 ON directly (via selecting the switch module)... instead use the "RF Commands" and send the RF Command to turn D2 ON, then D3, D4...
...and keep the flag to prevent re-trigger ;)
The CM15A's transmitter generally works much better than it's receiver, and since the lights work good thru the RR501, this should work.
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...and *tada*... works great via RF. So the CM15a seems to have a great range to transmit RF, but not so good for receiving RF. Good to know!
Thanks, Puck, for your help!
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Glad to hear that worked sprocket ;) :)
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I Would bet that this is actually a Problem in the CM15 with it's "Losing" outputs. This "Unfortunately" happens a LOT more
than anyone seems to realize. Switching to RF is a viable workaround, but if you want to keep away from sending RF all you
would have to do is add delays into the macro. This actually does a lot more than just add delays.
In other testing I found that a Direct Command in a macro from the CM15 will NOT always execute, but a delayed command WILL.
I don't pretend to have all the information on this, and the circumstances are only starting to get clearer but here is an example
of what to watch for. The Macro Says A1 ON A2 ON A3 ON and running it straight will produce A1 A2 A3 ON. Adding delays
between each one puts out (On Activity Monitor, which isn't fully accurate but good enough for this.) A1 ON dly A2 ON dly A3 ON.
With the setup I use (Already too big, but what the heck. Doing this from the early 80's) I see a lot of strange irregularities in
the way macros are triggered. RF, PLC and Pushing the "MACRO" button in AHP DO NOT always produce the same results.
(X-10, are you listening?) I still find that playing with the macro order and delays is the easiet way to get around some of this
type of stuff. I really like the "Send RF" option but I get too much interference from the controls I have to want much more.
That is the only reason I try to keep the signals PLC.
Special note: I have been enlightened to the binary that is sent to the CM15 from AHP and there are settings there that AHP
doesn't allow you to set. (# RF Repeats, RF Bits, and about 20 other little odds and ends.) It's possible that these need to be
set specifically for any different setup but knowing WHAT to set them to would go way beyond normal users desire to fully
understand the entire X-10 setup. (I don't use a lot of stuff they make and it's possible that camera's and such need these
settings as thay are to operate. Can't check what I don't have.... )
Last stupid Note: As noted elsewhere many times, Just because the Activity Monitor says that a command WAS issued does
NOT prove that it was. There are (Quite a few..) a few instances where the monitor shows it sent a command, but that command
never leaves the CM15. I have no idea where it goes, but the Line (Checked with scope, by the way..) stays clean with no
PLC signal. I have never even checked with sending RF from the CM15, so here I haven't the slightest ;D
Anyway, Glad you got it going, and hope that all goes well. (Good Job, Puck!)
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ArtClark:
It's well known that downloaded macros and macros executed from the PC are different. ActiveHome Pro tries to be "smart" about executing from the PC (but is buggy and often manages to muck things up in the process). E.g., if you program A1ON, A1ON, AHP may figure it needs to be done only once. Or if A1 is already recorded as ON, it may not send anything. Adding delays, even zero delays, often seems to work in telling AHP "don't be a smart alec - do what I tell you".
Combining A1ON, A2ON, A3ON into A1A2A3ON is usually legitimate (although it will be transmitted in X10 order, i.e., A3A1A2ON) and I think these will also be combined for downloaded macros.
If you want to keep tabs on what PLC the CM15A is actually sending, it helps to have a separate receiver. (As you've discovered, the Activity Monitor is not to be trusted.) I use a Linux program with a CM11A on a separate PC, but have found that I can simultaneously run AHP and the old ActiveHome under Win XP on the same PC if I connect the CM11A to the PC with a USB->Serial adapter, using the log feature of the old AH to monitor what's on the powerline. If interested, you can pick up the RCA-branded CM11A from the X-10 sale page for $10 + $6 S&H and a USB->Serial adapter for $15-$20 online or at a local computer shop.