X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: dillscon on November 03, 2007, 01:04:39 PM
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Does X10 make a dimmer switch that will remember the last brighten/dim setting when it turns off and on? It's kind of annoying to set the lighting....turn the light off....turn it on and have to reset it every time.
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By the way I also need the simmer switch to be a transmitter. I have an XPDF at the light. I'm using XPT with on/off - brighten/dim settings and it doesnt remember the level of light when the light is turned off.
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dillscon,
I'm not quite sure of your configuration. Are you replacing the XPT with a dimmer switch? This has me confused because the XPT itself will not control a load (it's just a transmitter).
X10 does make switches that will remember their last dim level. The new WS467 (pushbutton) has some new features including "preset dim". There are a number of posts from Charles Sullivan documenting the new functions in this switch.
Your second post indicates that you may be looking for a 2way capable dimmer switch. To my knowledge there are two "decora" versions available:
- Leviton HCM06-1TW (http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=136763&i=132866866&mpid=8171&dfid=1)
- Smarthome Insteon V2 Dimmer (http://www.smarthome.com/2476d-light-dimmer.html)
Both of these units will remember their last "on level" and will transmit On/Off commands in response to paddle presses. Between the two the Leviton unit is a bit more compatible as it uses "extended code direct dim" commands that are supported by the X10 CM51a interface (not sure if this is a concern). The Smarthome unit uses an older version direct dim that is not supported by the CM15a.
If your XPDF is programmed to the same address, either of these units will turn it On/Of with a local paddle press (X10 2Way).
If you are trying to use the Switch to activate the XPDF to a preset dim level, we have a problem. This would require the XPDF to have "preset dim" capability (it doesn't) or the use of an X10 scene (advanced programming feature that the XPDF again does not have).
Please give us a bit better idea of your configuration and what you're trying to accomplish.
Boiler
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Well I have six can lights currently all on one switch. My customer wants 3 on one switch and the other 3 on another switch. So rather than to run a new switch leg I'm making the current switch leg hot and using (2) XPDF receivers and (2) XPT bases with keypads that have on/off and brighten/dim.
I just got the correct parts in and tried it here at my house just to make sure it all worked before trying to make the install happen, and I dont think my customer is goign to be pleased about having to readjust the bright/dim setting everytime they use it.
Hopefully that explains my situation a little better. Thanks a lot.
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I just got the correct parts in and tried it here at my house just to make sure it all worked before trying to make the install happen, and I dont think my customer is goign to be pleased about having to readjust the bright/dim setting everytime they use it.
Ok, it sounds like you want your "inline" units to remember their previous dim level. The XPDF will not do this.
Smarthome has a Inline Insteon unit that will supposedly remember dim levels. I haven't used this particular unit, but it appears to be the elctronics from one of their standard switches (which I do use).
Manual: Smarthome InlineLinc (http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2475d.pdf)
This unit does not use code wheels for the Housecode/address. It requires programming by an transmitter (your can use your XPT base for this).
There are Leviton wire in modules as well, but I'm not aware of any the can remember dim levels. Maybe another forum member can chime in here.
Boiler
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There are so many products out there. I've got a lot of researching to do in this field. Thanks again for all the information.
I'll check out those other items.
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Would it be easier to get a smarthome switch that is already capable of communicating with the "Inline Insteon" ? I dont own any X-10 tools and from a lot of reports and problems i've already had with X10 I wouldnt mind avoiding it.
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Would it be easier to get a smarthome switch that is already capable of communicating with the "Inline Insteon" ? I dont own any X-10 tools and from a lot of reports and problems i've already had with X10 I wouldnt mind avoiding it.
dillscon,
We're really opening up Pandora's box here. As you mentioned, there are a number of competing technologies out there.
Being that you are an Electrician/Installer, the answer to your question depends on what you and your customers want in terms of home automation.
- If price is paramount, X10 is the low cost option and offers more devices than most of the newer technologies. However, the price of the install is not only the cost of the individual switches and sensors, but the cost of couplers, repeaters, filters, etc required to make the system reliable in a real world environment. If I were a X10 installer, I would have a real problem with a small installation (I.E. a coupler of switches and a remote). It would be difficult to justify, to the customer, the ancillary hardware (filters, couplers) required to make a simple install reliable. Without these, the system may work fine. Unfortunately, all it takes to mess things up is a few cheap CFL's, a cell phone charger, or that new A/V system.
- The Leviton line of X10 switches are an improvement over the older X10 brand. These have many additional features (preset dim, extended code dim, scene control-grouping units into a scene) and are quite a bit more expensive. They still use the X10 protocol and, although they use AGC (automatic gain control) which helps a lot in high noise environments, they are subject to the same basic noise and signal level problems as the X10 brand.
- Insteon (Smarthome) devices are one rung up the ladder. Most Insteon devices are backward X10 compatible. I have them mixed with both X10 and Leviton brand units. They offer many of the same features as the Leviton line along with a bridge to the Insteon protocol. The Insteon protocol is far most robust dual mode (RF and powerline) communication protocol. If you're interested there's a white paper here: Insteon Compared (http://www.smartlabsinc.com/files/INSTEONCompared20060102a.pdf). If things sound to good to be true here, they are. Insteon has some of it's own problems and limitations. I have a post on a number of these (including the lack of a credible controller) here: Alternative (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13793.msg76705#msg76705)
- Leviton Zwave - I'm not sure where to put these on the ladder relative to the Smarthome units. I suspect they are again a step above. They are definitely more expensive in terms of the unit price and the price for the REQUIRED controllers needed to program them. Zwave uses a RF communication protocol, so power line noise is not a concern. I have no experience with the RF range of these devices. If you are interested in the Zwave workings, have a look at KenM's posts over at AccessHa.com (Ken was a developer and a huge proponent). The AccessHa site has been shut down (officially) but you can still access the posts here: AccessHa ZWave (http://www.accessha.com/forums/z-wave-technical-forum/)
Mind boggling isn't it? Now, if I haven't completely turned you off HA, for your second question -
Would it be easier to get a smarthome switch that is already capable of communicating with the "Inline Insteon" ? I dont own any X-10 tools and from a lot of reports and problems i've already had with X10 I wouldnt mind avoiding it.
From what I understand of your customer's install -
- You have a chain of 6 lamps with 2 XPDF's wired to operate 3 lamps each.
- The XPDF's are hardwired to the powerline (no interrupting switch between the XPDF's and the panel).
- You have 2 XPT bases, each set to operate 1 of the XPDF's.
- Your customer wishes the lamps to "remember" their previous dim level
With the above configuration, you should be able to replace the XPDF's with the Smarthome InlineLinc in order to achieve the preset dim function (remember the dim level).
You should be able to operate the InlineLinc in X10 mode with the existing XPT bases.
You could also replace these bases with a Smarthome Insteon switch and operate in either X10, or Insteon mode. The Insteon switch is capable of controlling a load, but in your configuration the "controlled output" would be capped (use it as a transmitter). For this install, I'd recommend operating in the Insteon mode (unless you have other X10 devices in the house) due to it's better noise immunity, faster communication, and transmission retries.
Since the InlineLinc needs to be programmed (in either X10 or Insteon mode), you'll need access to the unit to activate the programming sequence. This may not be easy in the actual install. Since you already have a "test bed" at your shop (a really good idea by the way), consider programming both of your InlineLinc's prior to the actual install.
Finally - Let your customer know about the type of install you are giving them. With either the XPDF or the InlineLinc they will ONLY be able to use incandescent bulbs (a CFL could really screw up this installation). Explain to them that plugging in certain types of devices can interfere with the communication (Insteon is better but not infallible). Put another way, an informed customer could be a great asset for you.
Remember the old adage - Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink "cold beverage" all day.
Keep us updated,
Boiler
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Great information....you've taken me to a new level of understanding.
I'm going to install the XPDF and XPT base witht he key pads tomorrow because its time to wrap this job up, so the General Contractor says. After that i'll see how the customer likes it. I'm anticipating that they wont based on other things that they've liked, and disliked.
You also said that the Insteon has a faster transmission? I did notice that the X10 settup had a delay, sort of like the standard ceiling fan remote settups. I've heard a lot of customer complaints concerning that. How much of an improvement does Insteon give?
It's a shame that I dont have a local supplier for these things...i'de love to test them all out. I'm seriously looking into specializing in Home Automation and low voltage...if all goes well I may have to open up a supply store here too. Just a brain storm atleast.
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I'm going to install the XPDF and XPT base witht he key pads tomorrow because its time to wrap this job up, so the General Contractor says. After that i'll see how the customer likes it. I'm anticipating that they wont based on other things that they've liked, and disliked.
Sorry, I didn't realize you had a General Contractor on this (so much for talking with the customer). Good thing you're looking down the road though (customer concerns).
You also said that the Insteon has a faster transmission? I did notice that the X10 sttup had a delay, sort of like the standard ceiling fan remote settups. I've heard a lot of customer complaints concerning that. How much of an improvement does Insteon give?
Have a look at the "Insteon Whitepaper" link in my previous post (pages 16-24, Insteon compared to X10). Insteon is quoted as being 48X to 16X faster than X10 protocol (depends on Insteon retries and the type of device being addressed.
It's a shame that I dont have a local supplier for these things...i'de love to test them all out. I'm seriously looking into specializing in Home Automation and low voltage...if all goes well I may have to open up a supply store here too. Just a brain storm atleast.
Contact the vendors directly. I'd be amazed if they (Smarthome and Leviton) weren't trying to promote their products to contractors.
Again, keep us updated.
Boiler
As a general note - thank you X10 for allowing us to provide information on devices and protocols other than "X10 Brand".
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I installed everything yesterday. Worked perfect on the first try. And even better the customer has no complaints, so thats good.
The keypads for the XPT base actually make the house look better, they were very pleased with the look.
Thanks again for all the help!
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dillscon,
Thank you for the update. To often these threads simply stop and we never know the end result.
Glad to hear that the install worked well and that your customer was "pleased".
Boiler