X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: BAS-Sr on December 03, 2016, 05:25:43 PM
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My TM751 Transceiver started to make a clicking sound, almost like a relay inside was going on/off. Not repeatedly all the time, just every few minutes? I had another one, new in a box, so I took the one I had installed out and put the new one in. It started doing the same thing?
Now this is not in the main home, it is in my detached garage/shop. I also have a TM751 Transceiver in my home, no clicking, no problems?
Are both of these TM751's bad? Never had this happen before?
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How do they act if you put one of them where the working one is?
Is there also a load on the problem TM751's?
If so what type?
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No I doubt they are bad.
Try changing to a different House Code. does the problem go away? If so, or if the answer to Brian's first question is: "the clicking stops" then you have something (perhaps an X10 remote transmitter) sending RF ON-OFF codes. One other thought: did the power company recently install a new "smart meter" on your home.
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No load on the TM751, nothing plugged into it. No, electric company did not install any new equipment, still have to walk up and look at the meter! :-)
Like I said, I have a TM751 installed in my home, works fine. This one is installed in my garage/shop, which is a detached building from my home about 300 feet away. The original TM751 started doing this about 6 weeks ago, drove me crazy, thought it was coming from one of my cars?? Finally figured out it was coming from the TM751, so I swapped it with a new one I have and that one does the same thing. Only have one WiFi type X-10 device in that building (other than using the handheld remote), one of the sensors, not sure of the model. Could that be sending a signal to make it click repeatedly?
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It could be possible the X10 Sensor maybe sending strange stuff. I believe some acted real strange if the battery was almost dead.
I doubt WiFi would effect it. As its RF frequencies are not even close to the X10 310Mhz.
I suppose power line noise could be getting into the TM751's power supply. It has no X10 power line receiver in it.
If you have a chance. Trying one of the problem modules from the barn. Where the one in the house works well. It may point out a problem is in the barn area. If it works in the house with no clicking.
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I suppose power line noise could be getting into the TM751's power supply. It has no X10 power line receiver in it.
I've never heard of powerline noise as a culprit in relation to these symptoms but it's not beyond the realm of possibility.
Some TM751s and a few RR501s could get into a feedback loop where the 120kHz powerline signal seemed to trigger the superregenerative circuit in the TM751 but the symptoms were entirely different. Most people could fix it by reorienting the antenna. However, Dan Lanciani (no longer with us) created replacement PICs for both the TM751 & RR501 that seemed to fix this problem so it may have been that the 120kHz was acting on the original PICs.
Search on comp.home.automation endless dim syndrome.
http://compgroups.net/comp.home.automation/x10-tm751-endless-dim-problem/73298 (http://compgroups.net/comp.home.automation/x10-tm751-endless-dim-problem/73298)
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Since I feel that there "MIGHT" be a possible issue with the sensor causing this, let me take the batteries out of the sensor which should eliminate that as a possible culprit!
I'll let you know what I find........
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Since I feel that there "MIGHT" be a possible issue with the sensor causing this, let me take the batteries out of the sensor which should eliminate that as a possible culprit!
I'll let you know what I find........
OK, so last weekend I took the batteries out of the sensor, immediately the TM751 stopped clicking.
Waited a few days, put NEW batteries in the sensor, TM751 started clicking.
So apparently the sensor is causing the clicking? My question is WHY NOW? Have had this setup for quite a while (over 10 years). What could the senor be doing to cause the TM751 to click (click I mean sounds like a relay inside the TM751 is engaging)?
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You don't say what sensor or where it is mounted.
Obviously it is set to the address of the Tm751.
All X10 devices default to A1 and although some say they are for outdoors they don't stand up out doors (at least my experience with them it was less then a year)the wired sensors stand up better.
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If the sensor is ten years old.
Hardware failure, dirt or corrosion inside the motion sensor.
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My outdoor X10 motion sensors (MS16A) don't survive well when actually in an outdoor environment. In the Pacific Northwest, winter means the sensors on the south side of my house get wet a lot! The one under the wood shed is protected and I have only had to replace batteries 1-2 times in the last few years. The 2 exposed southern sensors have each been replaced at a 1-2 year rate. If you have sensors exposed to weather and they survived 10 years, I'm impressed!
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You don't say what sensor or where it is mounted.
Obviously it is set to the address of the Tm751.
All X10 devices default to A1 and although some say they are for outdoors they don't stand up out doors (at least my experience with them it was less then a year)the wired sensors stand up better.
Sorry, the sensor is an MS13A. This is a separate building/shop I have on my property. I use the MS13A (space alarm) to alert me if anyone goes in the shop, set it to a code (A-10) for an X10 Powerhouse Universal Module SM10, set the module for sound and relay, the relay sets off an alarm in my security system that sends me an alert/text to my cell phone in case I am not home to hear the alarm sound. This has been working fine for over 15 years until recently the TM751 started miking the clicking sound, like a relay inside is being set?
This is all indoors use, nothing outside, so no outside elements causing any issues. The signal seems to travel from shop to home just fine.
Just not sure to replace the TM751 again or the MS13A? Can't see how the MS13A could be causing the issue?
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I suspect the ms13A is the culprit.
The TM751 will click when a signal is sent to its address.
When batteries start to fail in the MS13 the settings usually revert to A1 (but not always)
If you replaced the batteries but not reset the MS13 address then it is sending A1 still.
Did you test the sensor to be sure it is sending A10?
I've had one sensor float all over the place sending signals. I've only had one TM751 go bad and that's because I fried it using a modified sine wave inverter.
I have however had several ms13 sensors go bad. So I moved to the security type sensors these have yet to fail me.
You say you have a security system being triggered. If it is a X10 type you may wish to look at security sensors
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Can't see how the MS13A could be causing the issue?
I had a spider get in to an old DM10 motion sensor (sensor for ReX-10 barking dog alarm) and it would trigger the. Since a spider is cold blooded it should not have cause the detector to trigger. But since it only triggered during the day, I guess the spider was interupting the sunlight to the sensor chip and it was interpreted as a warm body moving.
Not likely your problem, but it wouldn't hurt to take the front case off the MS13 and wipe off the glass on the sensor chip...before you toss it. (You don't have any flashing lights in the shop do you?)
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I suspect the ms13A is the culprit.
The TM751 will click when a signal is sent to its address.
When batteries start to fail in the MS13 the settings usually revert to A1 (but not always)
If you replaced the batteries but not reset the MS13 address then it is sending A1 still.
Did you test the sensor to be sure it is sending A10?
I've had one sensor float all over the place sending signals. I've only had one TM751 go bad and that's because I fried it using a modified sine wave inverter.
I have however had several ms13 sensors go bad. So I moved to the security type sensors these have yet to fail me.
You say you have a security system being triggered. If it is a X10 type you may wish to look at security sensors
So the TM751 uses A1 as it's address? Did not know that. Don't have any modules or units that use A1, so that is probably what the clicking is about in the shop.
I did not reset the MS13 factory settings, so it was probably sending out the signal for A1 and that is why I was hearing the TM751 clicking!
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The TM751 uses the first unit in the address it is set to, since your using A as the house code then the TM751 is clicking on with a receive of A1.
>!
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The TM751 is hard coded to Unit Code 1
The House Code is set with the dial on the front. If you didn't reset it. It will also be on House Code A.
Motion Sensors also default to A1 for Motion Detection and A2 for Dusk/Dawn Detection.
Many times if you have changed their address. They may go back to A1 when the battery is changed.
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Yup, have to set the HC and UC each time the batteries are pulled. Pretty easy to do fortunately.