X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: gringler on January 13, 2009, 09:43:53 PM
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Hi there... I'm experiencing some strange behaviour with a WS467...
I declared it as a LM14A lamp module (as suggested in several posts)... and, basically, it works OK and responds to my AHP commands for a while ... On, Off and dimming...
Then, if I just leave the light ON for several minutes, I basically lose control of the WS467... it does not respond to anything...
Then, hours later (and after manually turning OFF the lights), I can turn the lights ON from AHP... and after that, I cannot turn it off or dim. from AHP...
The CM15A is plugged in an outlet no more than 2 meters from the WS467... and the load on the WS467 are 3 incandescent bulbs in parallel... total load is 200 Watts.
The Triac in the WS467 works, as I have total manual control (On, Off, Dim).
Thoughts ?
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This may sound totally off the wall.
What gauge of wire do you have from the switch to the load?
Just a thought.
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Maybe 2 or 3 meters maximum from the WS467 to the load... cable it's about 3 mm. in diameter... (sorry for using metric system instead of US system...)
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It seems to me allot of people are starting to have problems with the WS467's. I have had one in the same spot for over a year with no problems and now it starts to act up. It wont shut off with a timer or macro. I have also read like 4 post here along with talking to a couple more in KDR's Chat Room.
You should start with making sure that you don't have a noise problem or a signal sucker. Read this posting for all that stuff.
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=7951.0
Do you have another switch to change it out with just to be sure its not a bad switch?
And Like you said you but want to make sure...Set it up as a 2-way lamp module in AHP like X10 recommends.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_WS467s_and_Preset_Dim
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Then, if I just leave the light ON for several minutes,
I basically lose control of the WS467... it does not respond to anything...
Then, hours later (and after manually turning OFF the lights), I can turn the lights ON from AHP... and after that, I cannot turn it off or dim. from AHP...
The Triac in the WS467 works, as I have total manual control (On, Off, Dim).
Thoughts ?
Well this is a "WAG".
IF this is a new WS467 switch and has exhibited the problem from the onset I would suspect a bad switch. Your symptoms describe two possible internal faults;
1. Heat related. Something, probably in the switches receiver circuitry, gets unstable when it gets warm. That would explain everything continuing to work fine from the local push button. OR
2. The big RF choke assembly in the switch is poo-poo. A bad choke symptom is usually NOT evident when the light is at 100% bright. (PLC ON and OFF will work fine) However when dimmed as little as 20% PLC control gets erratic. Local control is not affected.
IF the switch is old and has operated fine for some period of time and now is suddenly acting up, my vote goes with a noise problem in the system.
As I said, these are "Wild guesses".
Echoing jsnlongs question: Do you have an extra switch you could sub?
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...the load on the WS467 are 3 incandescent bulbs in parallel... total load is 200 Watts....
Also sort of a wild guess but to rule out the basics remove 2 of the bulbs and try if with just one bulb in the different sockets.
While incandescent bulbs should work fine with the switch, the light, when on, may be interfering with the X10 signal.
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Thanks everyone for the help !
This is a brand new WS467... purchased a week ago.
I'm expecting 2 more to arrive shortly, so I'll check if the new ones have the same behaviour...
I'll also try the "removing 2 bulbs" suggestion...
Will let everyone know soon
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Well this is a "WAG".
IF this is a new WS467 switch and has exhibited the problem from the onset I would suspect a bad switch. Your symptoms describe two possible internal faults;
1. Heat related. Something, probably in the switches receiver circuitry, gets unstable when it gets warm. That would explain everything continuing to work fine from the local push button. OR
2. The big RF choke assembly in the switch is poo-poo. A bad choke symptom is usually NOT evident when the light is at 100% bright. (PLC ON and OFF will work fine) However when dimmed as little as 20% PLC control gets erratic. Local control is not affected.
IF the switch is old and has operated fine for some period of time and now is suddenly acting up, my vote goes with a noise problem in the system.
As I said, these are "Wild guesses".
Echoing jsnlongs question: Do you have an extra switch you could sub?
Like Dave is pointing out, I wonder if it could be heat related. That was the purpose of my wire size suggestion.
Unfortunately, I do not have a 2-3 mm to AWG conversion chart around here, so I can't calculate the wire resistance vs. load.
In the mean time, subbing a switch sounds like a good first step.
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Well 2-3mm would put it at about 14-10awg wire. 14 awg is like 1.6mm.
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I received a new batch of WS467's.... with these new ones, the erratic behaviour is gone.... and now I have the problem that I can turn them ON (from AHP) but then I cannot turn dim or turn them off (from AHP)...
I think I've seen a post where there was a suggestion to create a macro to do this... I'll try to find it and give that a try, unless somebody suggests something different... :'(
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If they are new. Try defining one as a LM14A Two Way Module. I believe the new soft start wall switches and lamp modules work better with that choice.
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Hi Brian,
Yes, I have defined them in AHP as LM14A's, not as WS467's...
As I said, I can turn the lights ON from AHP, but after doing that, I cannot control the WS467's from AHP (and I need to "manually" turn them OFF using the dimming switch in the units...
I do not know what else to try.... ???
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YOU GUYS WILL NOT BELIEVE THIS !!!!
After trying everything(without any success), I decided to install AHP in my laptop computer... connected the CM15A to it, and tried to control all these WS467 from there (instead of controlling them from my desktop computer, which is where I installed AHP initially)...
And now everything works fine !!! I can control the WS467's, and I did not experience the erratic behaviour anymore (at least, not in the past 2 hours)... I can turn the lights ON, OFF, Dim... everything works...
Any ideas on why works using my laptop but does not work using my desktop ? Maybe a corrupted file ?
Thoughts ?
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............ Any ideas on why works using my laptop but does not work using my desktop ? Maybe a corrupted file ? Thoughts ?
UN-explained, self-correcting repairs are generally caused by good karma... or similarly difficult to identify phenomenon.
In your case just completely discharging the CM15A could also have been a correcting action.. if that is actually what happened. Did you remove the batteries... or could the batteries be dead? You could also now have the CM15A further away from... or closer to a source of line noise or a signal sucker.
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Hi Dave,
I did not remove the CM15A batteries... and the batteries are brand new...
And I plugged the CM15A in the same power outlet than before !!
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Could be a weak signal area.
Is the CM15A interface and the computer on the same circuit?
Do you have an X10 filter on the computers power supply?
If you have a surge strip on the computer a filter on it?
Many things can effect X10 signals like computer power supplies; laptop power supplies, surge filters.
Others with more experience with AHP file may also know if your thoughts on a corrupt file could be the cause also.
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Hi Brian,
Answers to your questions :
Yes, the CM15A and the computer are on the same circuit. I do not have any X10 filters.. my surge strip on the computer does not have a filter on it...
Thanks to all for your thoughts !
Gustavo
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I have filters on the Desktop Computer (where AHP is installed) and on the outlet where my wife (who loves having X10) plugs her laptop's power brick into, and on the File Server in the Basement. PC power supplies are notorious noise producers. Plug-in Filters are available on both X10.com and X10Pro.com. They are not expensive and good noise blockers.